Does anyone know what to do with a hardware password? I acquired my cube essentially off a junk pile. Just after the "Checking Disk" screen I get a terminal window with a boot sequence and then a dialogue asking for a hardware password. The motherboard battery is probably dead (don't have a voltmeter handy to check). Would replacing it bypass the system asking for said password? Anything I can try while waiting for a new battery?
Quote from: "peacey"Just after the "Checking Disk" screen I get a terminal window with a boot sequence and then a dialogue asking for a hardware password. The motherboard battery is probably dead
If the battery was dead the NeXTs try to boot from network. Your machine trys to boot from disk, so maybe removing the battery for a while will be cure the password?
I did remove the battery for about 10 minutes before trying to boot again, and same thing.
This is how you do it:
1.- Remove battery
2.- Shorting terminals together clears all settings back to factory defaults..
Good luck
Gaspar
Quote from: "gaspar"This is how you do it:
1.- Remove battery
2.- Shorting terminals together clears all settings back to factory defaults..
Good luck
Gaspar
Aha! I'll try that myself, since my machine seems to miss something on the network very much, and boots pretty much directly to that phase.
I haven't been able to break into the ROM monitor (or mini-monitor, if that's the appropriate term) at boot, yet.
My keyboard is black, with the Command bar, and I have the black two-button ADB mouse. I've tried booting the station with Alt-Command-bar-tilda (contrary to instructions I've read elsewhere, the tilda key is <i>not</i> on the numeric keypad, but - if memory serves - is the lower-right-most key on the alpha section). I've also tried booting with Command-bar-tilda. Still no ROM monitor, just the "Testing...." and then the immediate resort to the network searching...
Are these symptoms of the machine having been set to net-boot, then left like that? Or are these symptoms of a battery having once died, but not been dead enough to keep the machine from booting? Is there something wrong, possibly, with the ADB bus (the keyboard, the business in the monitor itself, etc.)?
I'm anxious to get to the point where I can have a look around my first computer running what I expect to be NEXTSTEP, so any help or insights on these hardware questions will be much appreciated...
Edit: I should point out that there doesn't seem to be a "Checking disk..." phase to the boot process, at least not one I can see.
Quote from: "fidel"
Are these symptoms of the machine having been set to net-boot, then left like that?
You bet. the settings were left to boot off the network.
Good luck
Gaspar
Quote from: "gaspar"Quote from: "fidel"
Are these symptoms of the machine having been set to net-boot, then left like that?
You bet. the settings were left to boot off the network.
Which begs a question or two: How, ultimately, do I get the machine to boot from the hard drive (if, as has been suggested, a dead battery - and, presumably, a remove-battery, short-terminals-in-the-battery-holder run-around - just gets me back to the point where, by default, the machine attempts to boot off of the network)? Does the machine having been set to net-boot somehow preclude, or prevent, accessing the ROM monitor at startup using the keyboard legerdemain? If so, can I expect that removing the battery and shorting the terminals will get me to the point where I can get to, and use, the ROM monitor to choose how to boot? If not, how do I go about diagnosing why the keyboard isn't dropping me into the ROM monitor?
One thing at a time...
The default settings are boot from the intenal disk. so after you reset the ROM to factory settings everything should look different but if this is not the case then force it to boot off the internal drive.
Right after the Testing System message hit <Command>+<Left Alt>+<~> to enter the Next ROM Monitor 3.3 v(74) you should see something similar to the following:
CPU MC68040 33 Mhz Memory 7 ns
Ethernet cable <MAC ADDRESS>
Memory size 32 MB
NeXT>_
Enter/change boot parameters:
NeXT>p
boot command sd ?<ENTER> (Options SD:SCSI Device FD:Floppy Drive EN:Ethernet_
Dram tests: yes ? <ENTER>
Perform power on system test: yes? <NEXT>
sound out test: yes? <NEXT>
SCSI tests: no? <NEXT>
loop until keypress: no? <NEXT>
verbose test mode: no? <ENTER> or y<ENTER>
Serial port A... no? <ENTER>
allow any ROM... no? <ENTER>
allow boot from ... no? <ENTER>
allow optical... yes? <ENTER>
enable parity... no? <ENTER>
NeXT>_
Then boot off the drive:
NeXT> bsd(0,0,0) sdmach rootdev=/dev/sd0a (or sd1a)
...
-Gaspar
Quote from: "gaspar"One thing at a time...
The default settings are boot from the intenal disk. so after you reset the ROM to factory settings everything should look different but if this is not the case then force it to boot off the internal drive.
Right after the Testing System message hit <Command>+<Left Alt>+<~> to enter the Next ROM Monitor 3.3 v(74) you should see something similar to the following:
Well, it appears that something else is wrong: I removed the battery and shorted the terminals in the holder (only much later did I realise that I'd left the machine plugged in); I then booted, tried the legerdemain, and ... no change, "Testing..." is followed (it seems more quickly now) by "Network..." . So, I'm beginning to suspect something about the keyboard, or the ADB more generally. The Power button certainly works, but that's not surprising. Should the brightness and sound up-downs also work before the system boots? If so, then that's a clue that the problem lies in the keyboard or the ADB circuitry (presumably in the monitor) - because they don't have any effect in this scenario. Is there an alternative to the current keyboard I can use to test, check, and change the boot process e.g. a Mac keyboard. If so, what's the keyboard and mouse protocol/chording/keypresses for using one or both? And can I mix and match black and Mac hardware on that bus?
Quote from: "fidel"Quote from: "gaspar"One thing at a time...
The default settings are boot from the intenal disk. so after you reset the ROM to factory settings everything should look different but if this is not the case then force it to boot off the internal drive.
Right after the Testing System message hit <Command>+<Left Alt>+<~> to enter the Next ROM Monitor 3.3 v(74) you should see something similar to the following:
Well, it appears that something else is wrong: I removed the battery and shorted the terminals in the holder (only much later did I realise that I'd left the machine plugged in); I then booted, tried the legerdemain, and ... no change, "Testing..." is followed (it seems more quickly now) by "Network..." . So, I'm beginning to suspect something about the keyboard, or the ADB more generally. The Power button certainly works, but that's not surprising. Should the brightness and sound up-downs also work before the system boots? If so, then that's a clue that the problem lies in the keyboard or the ADB circuitry (presumably in the monitor) - because they don't have any effect in this scenario. Is there an alternative to the current keyboard I can use to test, check, and change the boot process e.g. a Mac keyboard. If so, what's the keyboard and mouse protocol/chording/keypresses for using one or both? And can I mix and match black and Mac hardware on that bus?
I think that your cable that runs from the SoundBox to the computer is a NON-ADB [ONLY] cable. With this the power button will work - but the keyboard & mouse will not. I believe that the NeXT part # for the ADB [or NON-ADB] cable is something that starts with a #4 - similar to [4535.00]. The NON-ADB cables # will look something like this: [1535.00]
I'll check the part numbers and report back (the machine is not chez moi at the moment).
When you refer to the SoundBox, can I suppose that that means 'the SoundBox incorporated into the monitor'? I believe I've seen pix of external SoundBoxes, but my slab is just slab+monitor+keyboard+mouse and the cables to join them together (i.e. mouse into keyboard, keyboard into monitor's backside, monitor into slab's backside).
I'd do a binary search to isolate the problem component by swapping in and out individual items (e.g. keyboard, then keyboard cable, etc.), but I've only ever seen one other NeXT computer, and, on that occasion, was forced to keep my hands in my pockets.
I do have access to countless Mac keyboards, mice, and cables, though. If I attempt to boot using these, what's required i.e. is the mouse-down at boot strictly necessary if I'm going to be using just the keyboard in the ROM monitor; which of the Command keys and Alt/Option keys need to be held down, and when, to break into the ROM monitor; etc..
Quote from: "kenjay"
I think that your cable that runs from the SoundBox to the computer is a NON-ADB [ONLY] cable. With this the power button will work - but the keyboard & mouse will not. I believe that the NeXT part # for the ADB [or NON-ADB] cable is something that starts with a #4 - similar to [4535.00]. The NON-ADB cables # will look something like this: [1535.00]
This could be true, i'm stumbled about the same problem with my turbo cube. AFAIK the ADB-cables work also with non ADB equipment.
Quote from: "fidel"I'll check the part numbers and report back (the machine is not chez moi at the moment).
When you refer to the SoundBox, can I suppose that that means 'the SoundBox incorporated into the monitor'? I believe I've seen pix of external SoundBoxes, but my slab is just slab+monitor+keyboard+mouse and the cables to join them together (i.e. mouse into keyboard, keyboard into monitor's backside, monitor into slab's backside).
Well, for some [crazy] reason I was thinking that you had a SoundBox, but it would be the same issue in the case of your Mono monitor cable. If you are using an ADB keyboard & mouse - you must use the ADB monitor cable.
Quote from: "kenjay"
I think that your cable that runs from the SoundBox to the computer is a NON-ADB [ONLY] cable. With this the power button will work - but the keyboard & mouse will not. I believe that the NeXT part # for the ADB [or NON-ADB] cable is something that starts with a #4 - similar to [4535.00]. The NON-ADB cables # will look something like this: [1535.00]
A little clarification is needed, I think: Is it that the ~#4535 cable is universal (ADB + non-ADB) and the ~#1535 cable is strictly non-ADB?
Also, in the event that the monitor-slab cable is ID'd as being non-ADB, is there a hardware hack to get the relevant signals from the monitor's guts to the slab's guts? Or do I strictly have to go hunting for the real deal?
Quote from: "fidel"Quote from: "kenjay"
I think that your cable that runs from the SoundBox to the computer is a NON-ADB [ONLY] cable. With this the power button will work - but the keyboard & mouse will not. I believe that the NeXT part # for the ADB [or NON-ADB] cable is something that starts with a #4 - similar to [4535.00]. The NON-ADB cables # will look something like this: [1535.00]
A little clarification is needed, I think: Is it that the ~#4535 cable is universal (ADB + non-ADB) and the ~#1535 cable is strictly non-ADB?
Also, in the event that the monitor-slab cable is ID'd as being non-ADB, is there a hardware hack to get the relevant signals from the monitor's guts to the slab's guts? Or do I strictly have to go hunting for the real deal?
Assuming that you are using the 18" slab monitor cable: the NON-ADB piece is #1532.00[or] #1532.01 - and the ADB [also works on NON-ADB] piece is # 4535.00.
I [personally] can't help you with any cable hacks - sorry.
Quote from: "fidel"Quote from: "kenjay"
I think that your cable that runs from the SoundBox to the computer is a NON-ADB [ONLY] cable. With this the power button will work - but the keyboard & mouse will not. I believe that the NeXT part # for the ADB [or NON-ADB] cable is something that starts with a #4 - similar to [4535.00]. The NON-ADB cables # will look something like this: [1535.00]
A little clarification is needed, I think: Is it that the ~#4535 cable is universal (ADB + non-ADB) and the ~#1535 cable is strictly non-ADB?
Also, in the event that the monitor-slab cable is ID'd as being non-ADB, is there a hardware hack to get the relevant signals from the monitor's guts to the slab's guts? Or do I strictly have to go hunting for the real deal?
The cable IDs as 4535.
Sigh. I've tried the keyboard legerdemain with two Apple ADB keyboards (II and the Extended, with and without mouse, swapping cables for the tests, mouse-button down when relevant, etc.) and no joy. Am I right in supposing that there's at least some chance of this working? That Command-Alt-tilda or Command-Command-tilda are the usual suspects (I think maybe the latter is incorrect; I'm searching through the FAQs I have for something a bit more unambiguous).
What else might be happening here? Is it possible that the drive, which is spinning and audible, but not slapping itself silly, is system-less? Never having seen this - or any other - NeXT machine boot to the drive, I've no idea what to expect.
Heres a quick vid of my NeXT booting just so you can see.
http://geocities.com/helf.nextstep/next_boot2.aviits 2.5mb... and grainy, and low resolution. But it works :)
It starts right after "Testing..." .
Quote from: "helf"Heres a quick vid of my NeXT booting just so you can see.
http://geocities.com/helf.nextstep/next_boot2.avi
...
It starts right after "Testing..." .
http://geocities.com/helf.nextstep/next_boot2.avi didn't do it, but
http://www.geocities.com/helf.nextstep/next_boot2.avi did, at least for the audio. Now, I've got to install AVI->QuickTime and come around at it again for the video.
I'm getting antsy enough that I'm considering installing NEXTSTEP under VirtualPC (version 2.x) on my Mac, just to see it...
Speaking of emulation, virtual machines, and the like... does anyone know if vMac or MinivMac sources compile to allow that emulator to run on NeXT hardware?
oh, I what formats can you play? I could make a different video and encode it as something else.
Theres a program called "executor" that allows for limited system 7 'mac' to run on your NeXT. I have it installed on mine.. its... not very useful :)
Quote from: "helf"oh, I what formats can you play? I could make a different video and encode it as something else.
Theres a program called "executor" that allows for limited system 7 'mac' to run on your NeXT. I have it installed on mine.. its... not very useful :)
Yeah, well, Executor, hmm. Interesting exercise. Terrible interface. I've run it on an early Pentium laptop. Briefly, very briefly.
As for formats... what I'm getting is a 'decompressor not found' error - don't know if it even exists. I can hear the audio, though. The version of QuickTime I'm using is 6.0.3, so it's should be able to handle most things - .movs, certainly.
I can boot into OS X, and I've tried sucking the .avi into iMovie, but, again, no joy. There's almost certainly something X-ish I could use (X11 is installed), but movies aren't my thing, so...
bah, stupid me didnt notice that virtualdub saved it as an *.avi .. it was encoded as mpeg4 v3...
Okay, someone recently gave me an old NeXT cube that I actually set up and ran when it was new, years ago. Of course I don't have the hardware password for it. The machine is ROM 2.5 (v66).
I tried removing the battery and shorting the terminals (twice), but it's still prompting for the password.
I disconnected from everything (only power and monitor were originally connected) before trying this.
So, how long should one have to short the terminals? I've also read about simply removing the battery and waiting overnight.
Thanks for any help.
On Macs, mini DIN S-Video cables work fine for replacement ADB cables, I never tried this with NeXT hardware but it should be the same. S-Video min DIN cables are also cheaper, easier to find and available in some pretty long lengths, and in black :)
Good luck.
I'll answer my own question. I removed the battery for about 24 hours and that did the trick.
I put the system board back in by reversing it so that the connector didn't mate, to store it for the 24 hours. Of course the back ports didn't line up that way so I just had the back of the system sort of lying on top. I put the battery in a zip lock bag down inside the system to store it in a safe place during the experiement.
When I put the battery back and reassembled everything today it tried to net boot so it was easy to bsd -s and go from there.
I'm still curious why shorting the battery terminals together didn't work. I probably didn't short them for more than 15 or 20 seconds.
Quote from: "oldnextuser"
So, how long should one have to short the terminals? I've also read about simply removing the battery and waiting overnight.
Thanks for any help.