Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: mikef on March 08, 2009, 11:05:46 PM
Post by: mikef on March 08, 2009, 11:05:46 PM
A recent thread comparing the offering price of a high-priced NeXT on eBay to other rare computers got me thinking.
Next to the NeXT, what are the most desirable vintage computers and workstations, and how do they compare to each other? In the not too-distant past, Sun systems Silicon Graphics, RDI, etc., were out of the reach of most folks. Favorites?
Next to the NeXT, what are the most desirable vintage computers and workstations, and how do they compare to each other? In the not too-distant past, Sun systems Silicon Graphics, RDI, etc., were out of the reach of most folks. Favorites?
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: Empathy on March 09, 2009, 04:12:25 AM
Post by: Empathy on March 09, 2009, 04:12:25 AM
To me, it's a VAXstation.
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: gtnicol on March 09, 2009, 04:22:32 PM
Post by: gtnicol on March 09, 2009, 04:22:32 PM
Lisp Machine, BeBox, and SGI for me...
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: mauve on March 09, 2009, 05:08:36 PM
Post by: mauve on March 09, 2009, 05:08:36 PM
I confess a sweet spot for alpha-based stations.
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: un on March 09, 2009, 05:29:36 PM
Post by: un on March 09, 2009, 05:29:36 PM
I'd like an Sparcstation 20 that actually works :)
Seriously though after the NeXT it was an O2 for me.
Seriously though after the NeXT it was an O2 for me.
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: Andreas on March 10, 2009, 05:40:31 AM
Post by: Andreas on March 10, 2009, 05:40:31 AM
I would like to have a C65.
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: Shuren on March 10, 2009, 02:21:39 PM
Post by: Shuren on March 10, 2009, 02:21:39 PM
Alpha also for me.
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: nextchef on March 10, 2009, 10:11:24 PM
Post by: nextchef on March 10, 2009, 10:11:24 PM
A nice BeBox is currently at the top of my "personal computer" list, but my most desired piece of vintage computer kit would have to be a Pixar Image Computer. Amazing piece of both computer and film history.
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: niteshooter on March 10, 2009, 11:36:22 PM
Post by: niteshooter on March 10, 2009, 11:36:22 PM
I'm kind of partial to the SGI Iris Indigo with an O2 or Indy2 a close second. Granted I wouldn't turn down a Crimson either.
I suspect this Altair http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150330705634&ih=005&category=4193&_trksid=p4012.m8&_trkparms=algo%3DMW%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D20%26po%3DLCA%26ps%3D4 is going to go for some $$$ though that zero feedback bidder might mess it up.
Kevin
I suspect this Altair http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150330705634&ih=005&category=4193&_trksid=p4012.m8&_trkparms=algo%3DMW%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D20%26po%3DLCA%26ps%3D4 is going to go for some $$$ though that zero feedback bidder might mess it up.
Kevin
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: pentium on March 12, 2009, 01:40:47 PM
Post by: pentium on March 12, 2009, 01:40:47 PM
I want a PDP-8 as well as a DECTape drive (or two).
[fanboy]Screw the Altair, You can actually do things with a PDP-8.[/fanboy]
[fanboy]Screw the Altair, You can actually do things with a PDP-8.[/fanboy]
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: cubist on March 12, 2009, 07:28:38 PM
Post by: cubist on March 12, 2009, 07:28:38 PM
Quote from: "pentium"I want a PDP-8 as well as a DECTape drive (or two).Might want to look at http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/. He's currently selling a single board pdp-8 based on the Harris chip. Not a *Dec* pdp-8 but still a hardware pdp-8.
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: niteshooter on March 12, 2009, 08:04:20 PM
Post by: niteshooter on March 12, 2009, 08:04:20 PM
Quote from: "pentium"I want a PDP-8 as well as a DECTape drive (or two).
[fanboy]Screw the Altair, You can actually do things with a PDP-8.[/fanboy]
Yes it would make a dandy room heater!
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: Thrax on March 12, 2009, 08:59:39 PM
Post by: Thrax on March 12, 2009, 08:59:39 PM
I've always been a fan of "pizza box" designs often exemplified by sun. I would also like hte Octane series by SGI as well as a Mac IIFX.
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: sasounet on March 18, 2009, 11:07:55 PM
Post by: sasounet on March 18, 2009, 11:07:55 PM
My favourite is the HP-9845C.
http://www.hp9845.net/9845/hardware/9845c/
I only have the 9845B with enhanced mono monitor :-(
François
http://www.hp9845.net/9845/hardware/9845c/
I only have the 9845B with enhanced mono monitor :-(
François
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: pentium on March 19, 2009, 01:11:26 AM
Post by: pentium on March 19, 2009, 01:11:26 AM
Quote from: "cubist"Pfft. That's not a real PDP-8. :PQuote from: "pentium"I want a PDP-8 as well as a DECTape drive (or two).Might want to look at http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/. He's currently selling a single board pdp-8 based on the Harris chip. Not a *Dec* pdp-8 but still a hardware pdp-8.
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: hanul on March 19, 2009, 07:49:42 AM
Post by: hanul on March 19, 2009, 07:49:42 AM
Recently, I aquired a SGI O2 and a 1600SW monitor is on the way. I think this is one of the most outstanding designs for a computer.
I still consider the Apple Cube a very nice piece of hardware. Of the more historic computers, I would like to own an IMSAI 8800 (because of War Games ;-) ).
I tried to start a collection of UNIX workstations of the 90s some time ago and at one point had two NeXTstations, a DEC AlphaStation 200, a HP 712/100 and several other computers. I sold most of them on ebay after considering the space requirements to set them up properly. I like my collection to be accessible, so I had to choose carefully.
I kept the 712 (running HP-UX and NEXTSTEP), added the SGI, and because they are part of my personal computer history, I still have my Commodore 128 and a Toshiba T1850 (ca. 1993). The rest has to be emulated, which is no major problem for any x86-based or 8-bit OS.
I still consider the Apple Cube a very nice piece of hardware. Of the more historic computers, I would like to own an IMSAI 8800 (because of War Games ;-) ).
I tried to start a collection of UNIX workstations of the 90s some time ago and at one point had two NeXTstations, a DEC AlphaStation 200, a HP 712/100 and several other computers. I sold most of them on ebay after considering the space requirements to set them up properly. I like my collection to be accessible, so I had to choose carefully.
I kept the 712 (running HP-UX and NEXTSTEP), added the SGI, and because they are part of my personal computer history, I still have my Commodore 128 and a Toshiba T1850 (ca. 1993). The rest has to be emulated, which is no major problem for any x86-based or 8-bit OS.
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: cubist on March 19, 2009, 08:09:46 PM
Post by: cubist on March 19, 2009, 08:09:46 PM
Quote from: "pentium"Pfft. That's not a real PDP-8. :PGood enough to be used in the DECMATE I. (The Harris chip, that is...)
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: bkmoore on March 20, 2009, 10:20:47 PM
Post by: bkmoore on March 20, 2009, 10:20:47 PM
Didn't the French make a small all-in-one computer that might have inspired the form factor of the the original Macintosh?
I was just curious if anyone has seen one and can post a picture. I'm not sure what to search for on google to find it. Maybe one of the French users here is familiar with what I'm asking about.
Brian Moore
I was just curious if anyone has seen one and can post a picture. I'm not sure what to search for on google to find it. Maybe one of the French users here is familiar with what I'm asking about.
Brian Moore
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: cubist on March 21, 2009, 01:16:21 PM
Post by: cubist on March 21, 2009, 01:16:21 PM
Quote from: "bkmoore"Didn't the French make a small all-in-one computer that might have inspired the form factor of the the original Macintosh?
The old minitel system, maybe?
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: emond on March 21, 2009, 01:24:37 PM
Post by: emond on March 21, 2009, 01:24:37 PM
Quote from: "cubist"Quote from: "bkmoore"Didn't the French make a small all-in-one computer that might have inspired the form factor of the the original Macintosh?
The old minitel system, maybe?
this ??? Minitel 1 ?
or the SMT Goupil 1 ?
Or the MICRAL 80/22 ?
many other computer are make in France...
Me I prefere the Lear Siegler ADM-3A :roll:
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: bkmoore on March 21, 2009, 10:27:02 PM
Post by: bkmoore on March 21, 2009, 10:27:02 PM
Emond,
Merci de nous afficher le Mintel 1. (I'm sorry in advance if my French isn't very good.) I read somewhere that the original Mac was possibly inspired by a French design. After looking at the pictures you provided, I think the Mintel 1 could have probably been a precursor. It looks like it had a built in modem. Looks like a really neat system.
Thanks,
Brian Moore
Merci de nous afficher le Mintel 1. (I'm sorry in advance if my French isn't very good.) I read somewhere that the original Mac was possibly inspired by a French design. After looking at the pictures you provided, I think the Mintel 1 could have probably been a precursor. It looks like it had a built in modem. Looks like a really neat system.
Thanks,
Brian Moore
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: mauve on March 22, 2009, 06:28:54 PM
Post by: mauve on March 22, 2009, 06:28:54 PM
Quote from: "bkmoore"
Merci de nous afficher le Mintel 1. (I'm sorry in advance if my French isn't very good.) I read somewhere that the original Mac was possibly inspired by a French design. After looking at the pictures you provided, I think the Mintel 1 could have probably been a precursor. It looks like it had a built in modem. Looks like a really neat system.
Hi,
In fact the Minitel was neat indeed, but it wasn't a computer. The modem was builtin but that's because it was a passive terminal hooked up to servers via a modem ; without it, the minitel would have been useless.
Just for your information, there are still some services open for Minitel ; most of the remaining ones are very professionals : where Internet needs strong encryption and heavy login procedures, Minitel pretty much warrants the identity of users.
And Minitel was only block-graphic (like an Atari 800).
The design philosophy was much closer to the CAT ; but as the CAT was Jeff Raskin's brain-child, and Jeff Raskin was responsible for the creation of the Mac division at Apple, this somehow ties the loop.
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: hanul on April 03, 2009, 06:57:05 PM
Post by: hanul on April 03, 2009, 06:57:05 PM
As mentioned above, one of the iconic computers I always wanted to own was an SGI. I thought I share a photo as the 1600SW display arrived today. Now, SGI went bancrupt again and it looks like they are going to be sold to Rackable...
The display is great (1600x1024 widescreen), the O2 is a little bit too noisy for my taste, but it is a nice system nonetheless. Have to get used to IRIX, though.
Unfortunately, my space is limited at the moment, so I had to store the HP 712 (NS3.3) temporarily to make room for the SGI.
A MicroVAX or a "small" PDP-11 (with UNIX V7) would be nice.
The display is great (1600x1024 widescreen), the O2 is a little bit too noisy for my taste, but it is a nice system nonetheless. Have to get used to IRIX, though.
Unfortunately, my space is limited at the moment, so I had to store the HP 712 (NS3.3) temporarily to make room for the SGI.
A MicroVAX or a "small" PDP-11 (with UNIX V7) would be nice.
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: cubist on April 03, 2009, 09:27:47 PM
Post by: cubist on April 03, 2009, 09:27:47 PM
Quote from: "hanul"
A MicroVAX or a "small" PDP-11 (with UNIX V7) would be nice.
Oh, you think the O2 is noisy?
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: pentium on April 04, 2009, 12:05:37 AM
Post by: pentium on April 04, 2009, 12:05:37 AM
Quote from: "cubist"Oh, you think the O2 is noisy?I don't think he's really been in the presence of a real SGI. The O2 is a mere toy. :wink:
Also, how hard was it finding the Flat Panel Adapter for that O2?
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: niteshooter on April 04, 2009, 01:27:32 AM
Post by: niteshooter on April 04, 2009, 01:27:32 AM
Quote from: "pentium"Quote from: "cubist"Oh, you think the O2 is noisy?I don't think he's really been in the presence of a real SGI. The O2 is a mere toy. :wink:
Also, how hard was it finding the Flat Panel Adapter for that O2?
Is it the same as the Iris -> Indy II? Connectors look like the old Sun and the old Apple 19 mono and full page mono screens?
If so then Black Box Canada had them not long ago. Cost was $11.43 cdn and the pn was FA8500SGI.
Kevin
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: pentium on April 04, 2009, 02:32:30 AM
Post by: pentium on April 04, 2009, 02:32:30 AM
Not even close.
the 13W3 connector is bog standard with SGI systems.
the 13W3 connector is bog standard with SGI systems.
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: niteshooter on April 04, 2009, 09:10:36 AM
Post by: niteshooter on April 04, 2009, 09:10:36 AM
Quote from: "pentium"Not even close.
the 13W3 connector is bog standard with SGI systems.
Figures.
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: hanul on April 04, 2009, 03:02:24 PM
Post by: hanul on April 04, 2009, 03:02:24 PM
Well, the O2 is noisy compared to a current desktop Mac ;-)
I think, SGI's rack systems are as loud as any "big iron", be it from SGI, HP, Dell or any other. Never saw one, though, only SGI workstations. What about the desktop size PDPs and VAX? Are they "loud" machines?
I got the Flat Panel Adapter from ebay, new in box. They are as rare as the Multilink adapter.
I think, SGI's rack systems are as loud as any "big iron", be it from SGI, HP, Dell or any other. Never saw one, though, only SGI workstations. What about the desktop size PDPs and VAX? Are they "loud" machines?
I got the Flat Panel Adapter from ebay, new in box. They are as rare as the Multilink adapter.
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: myszy on April 09, 2009, 03:25:11 AM
Post by: myszy on April 09, 2009, 03:25:11 AM
Quote from: hanulWell, the O2 is noisy compared to a current desktop Mac ;-)
What about the desktop size PDPs and VAX? Are they "loud" machines?.
I've VAXstation 3100 M48 and it's really loud - it has two big fans in PSU and also three quite loud harddisks inside. I think it's even a bit louder than my Sun Ultra 60 (which has - I'm not completly sure - 5 or 6 fans ?).
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: NeXTsociety on March 03, 2010, 01:03:00 AM
Post by: NeXTsociety on March 03, 2010, 01:03:00 AM
Amiga A4000T
:)
tj
:)
tj
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: victormeunier on March 03, 2010, 07:02:08 AM
Post by: victormeunier on March 03, 2010, 07:02:08 AM
Quote from: "bkmoore"Didn't the French make a small all-in-one computer that might have inspired the form factor of the the original Macintosh?You definately talk about the Minitel.
I was just curious if anyone has seen one and can post a picture. I'm not sure what to search for on google to find it. Maybe one of the French users here is familiar with what I'm asking about.
Brian Moore
Our minitel is very resemblant to the first compact Macintosh.
There was a time when France Télécom (the French company behind the Minitel) tried to export the idea to the US, but it was a huge flop.
Even now, in 2010, the Minitel remains very popular, many families (more in the countryside, and rather aged people) still use it as a way to get information. In fact, the yearly income made by the Minitel in 2007 was estimated at 100 million euros. :roll:
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: Empathy on March 03, 2010, 08:35:07 AM
Post by: Empathy on March 03, 2010, 08:35:07 AM
Quote from: "victormeunier"Even now, in 2010, the Minitel remains very popular, many families (more in the countryside, and rather aged people) still use it as a way to get information. In fact, the yearly income made by the Minitel in 2007 was estimated at 100 million euros. :roll:To get information from... where? Income made by the Minitel? You mean people still make this stuff and others buy it? I find this things fascinating.
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: pan1k on March 03, 2010, 10:08:50 AM
Post by: pan1k on March 03, 2010, 10:08:50 AM
I'm a big Amiga and NeXT fan. I have both, so I guess I am well covered. I just wish I had more equipment for my NeXT box, such as the DayDream or Nitro... it's sooo hard to find 3rd party accessories for it!
Title: Most Desirable Personal Computer Next to the NeXT
Post by: victormeunier on March 04, 2010, 06:13:26 AM
Post by: victormeunier on March 04, 2010, 06:13:26 AM
Quote from: "Empathy"Quote from: "victormeunier"Even now, in 2010, the Minitel remains very popular, many families (more in the countryside, and rather aged people) still use it as a way to get information. In fact, the yearly income made by the Minitel in 2007 was estimated at 100 million euros. :roll:To get information from... where? Income made by the Minitel? You mean people still make this stuff and others buy it? I find this things fascinating.
You get the information from a French network called Télétel, on which the Minitel connects.
It is based on Transpac, it's a network for commutating X.25 packets owned by France Télécom.
You connected to the network and payed the time you spent on the network, just like if you were on the phone. Then you could subscribe to additional content from the terminal.
You had to dial Minitel numbers, just as if it was a phone, only they were slightly different. The most commons were 3617, 3615, 3614 etc, then you had to type the service you asked (usually 4 letters) like 3617 ANNU would direct you to a national phone registry, 3615 ULLA was an erotic adress, etc.
The Minitel was a passive terminal. It was Telematique, and it it recognized in the world as the first commercially successful telematic device and network.
I got it from the French Wikipedia page about the Minitel but a recent article in a French newspaper called "Le Monde" talked about it, that's where i got the information. There are no Minitels sold anymore, the income is made with connexions made from already existing terminals. Some professional services are still available like the registry for national phone numbers or such. Not to mention many people who learnt terminal communication through this device still find it faster to use than computers they don't master.
And moreover, the minitel pages are pretty summed up, no ads, no superficial information, nothing unnecessary, which makes it pretty accurate to find information quickly. :o
Well, personally, i'm not a user, but when i was younger, i got to use it a little bit. Not too much though, because i was young and back then, the Minitel bill could get very expensive if you "pushed the wrong button" or connected to adult content (which still represents a huge part of the connexions) so the adults wouldn't let the kids alone with the Minitel ;)