Title: Using an SD-Card drive image in Previous Emulator
Post by: GrafZahl on May 30, 2016, 01:40:43 PM
Post by: GrafZahl on May 30, 2016, 01:40:43 PM
Hello,
I maybe have an odd question at hand. I would like to create a dd image of my black hardware setup and use it as hd image for previous. And after installing some stuff I would like to write it back to an SD card and use it on real hardware. Unfortunetly my setup is a little complex and I did not yet succeed in doing so. Has anybody tried something like that with success?
I have a nextstation color turbo with an SCSI to ide adapter and an attached SD card reader with a 4GB SD-Card on the black hardware side. And a Mac with an SD card slot on the other side.
The Nextstep 3.3 installation to the SD card worked fine and I did not partitioned the card using only 2 GB of it. It bootet without complaining.
Then I created an image on the mac using:
sudo dd if=/dev/disk2 of=~/Desktop/blackBoxNS33.dd
and to test if the image worked I wrote it to another SD card using:
sudo dd if=~/Desktop/blackBoxNS33.dd of=/dev/disk2
the resulting SD card booted and workend on next hardware. Since then i experimented with other dd arguments like rdisk2 and block sizes like bs=512b but did not manage to start an image in previous.
I could provide a link to the dd image but it is quite large (1.3GB) even when 7-ziped.
https://img4.picload.org/image/rgiaaial/previous.png
https://picload.org/image/rgiaaiaa/hex.jpg
Thank you very much.
I maybe have an odd question at hand. I would like to create a dd image of my black hardware setup and use it as hd image for previous. And after installing some stuff I would like to write it back to an SD card and use it on real hardware. Unfortunetly my setup is a little complex and I did not yet succeed in doing so. Has anybody tried something like that with success?
I have a nextstation color turbo with an SCSI to ide adapter and an attached SD card reader with a 4GB SD-Card on the black hardware side. And a Mac with an SD card slot on the other side.
The Nextstep 3.3 installation to the SD card worked fine and I did not partitioned the card using only 2 GB of it. It bootet without complaining.
Then I created an image on the mac using:
sudo dd if=/dev/disk2 of=~/Desktop/blackBoxNS33.dd
and to test if the image worked I wrote it to another SD card using:
sudo dd if=~/Desktop/blackBoxNS33.dd of=/dev/disk2
the resulting SD card booted and workend on next hardware. Since then i experimented with other dd arguments like rdisk2 and block sizes like bs=512b but did not manage to start an image in previous.
I could provide a link to the dd image but it is quite large (1.3GB) even when 7-ziped.
https://img4.picload.org/image/rgiaaial/previous.png
https://picload.org/image/rgiaaiaa/hex.jpg
Thank you very much.
Title: Using an SD-Card drive image in Previous Emulator
Post by: mikeboss on May 30, 2016, 03:33:55 PM
Post by: mikeboss on May 30, 2016, 03:33:55 PM
since I am the creator of all the dd-images with the various NeXT system releases, I do have some experience with images and the dd command. I'm also using a Mac most of the time.
rule of thumb: in OS X always use the rdisk* device!
I did not use any special options or values while creating images.
AFAIK all my images are running just fine with Previous... and I also wrote the images back to SD cards (used with SCSI2SD) and/or CF cards (used with Aztec-Monster). I never experienced any problems. maybe the SCSI<->IDE adapter you're using is no good? also, I'd try a smaller SD card (e.g. 1.0 GB). and make sure that the card you're using isn't bigger than 2.0 GB.
regards,
michael
rule of thumb: in OS X always use the rdisk* device!
I did not use any special options or values while creating images.
AFAIK all my images are running just fine with Previous... and I also wrote the images back to SD cards (used with SCSI2SD) and/or CF cards (used with Aztec-Monster). I never experienced any problems. maybe the SCSI<->IDE adapter you're using is no good? also, I'd try a smaller SD card (e.g. 1.0 GB). and make sure that the card you're using isn't bigger than 2.0 GB.
regards,
michael
Title: Using an SD-Card drive image in Previous Emulator
Post by: andreas_g on May 31, 2016, 12:59:19 AM
Post by: andreas_g on May 31, 2016, 12:59:19 AM
The disk label seems to be good. But the output "READ: sdcmd bad state: 0" is strange. I already saw this in some cases after resetting Previous.
If you could provide access to the image I would be glad to test it with my setup and see if something is wrong with the image or if there is a bug in Previous.
If you could provide access to the image I would be glad to test it with my setup and see if something is wrong with the image or if there is a bug in Previous.
Title: Using an SD-Card drive image in Previous Emulator
Post by: GrafZahl on May 31, 2016, 12:22:46 PM
Post by: GrafZahl on May 31, 2016, 12:22:46 PM
Quote from: "mikeboss"since I am the creator of all the dd-images with the various NeXT system releases, I do have some experience with images and the dd command. I'm also using a Mac most of the time.
rule of thumb: in OS X always use the rdisk* device!
I did not use any special options or values while creating images.
AFAIK all my images are running just fine with Previous... and I also wrote the images back to SD cards (used with SCSI2SD) and/or CF cards (used with Aztec-Monster). I never experienced any problems. maybe the SCSI<->IDE adapter you're using is no good? also, I'd try a smaller SD card (e.g. 1.0 GB). and make sure that the card you're using isn't bigger than 2.0 GB.
regards,
michael
Hello Michael,
thank you very much for the hint of using rdisk and smaller sd cards.
I will try this out as soon as I manage to buy some smaller SD cards next weekend. It is good to know that it should work in theory. The SCSI<->IDE adapter may be a problem though...
Thank you also for creating the dd drive images. I have for sure used one if it in previous in the past :D
regards,
Manuel
Title: Using an SD-Card drive image in Previous Emulator
Post by: GrafZahl on May 31, 2016, 12:33:08 PM
Post by: GrafZahl on May 31, 2016, 12:33:08 PM
Quote from: "andreas_g"The disk label seems to be good. But the output "READ: sdcmd bad state: 0" is strange. I already saw this in some cases after resetting Previous.
If you could provide access to the image I would be glad to test it with my setup and see if something is wrong with the image or if there is a bug in Previous.
Hello Andreas,
Thank you very much for your kind offer and help. I'll upload the sd card image to my dropbox and mail the link to you afterwards. Unfortunatly my upload is very slow and this will take a couple of hours....
regards,
Manuel
Title: Re: Using an SD-Card drive image in Previous Emulator
Post by: wa2flq on June 01, 2016, 07:49:43 PM
Post by: wa2flq on June 01, 2016, 07:49:43 PM
Quote from: "GrafZahl"
....
https://picload.org/image/rgiaaiaa/hex.jpg
Thank you very much.
When I look at this dump and compare it to a Intel disk image, it looks like it starts at the partition table. The first 35 blocks (512 byte sectors) are not present.
I move raw openstep Intel images between SCSI drives or microSD cards to/from Fusion VM's. I don't see how the first part of the disk would be skipped in this way.
[Somewhere on the list of TODO's is installing Previous.... :roll: ]
Jerry
Title: Using an SD-Card drive image in Previous Emulator
Post by: andreas_g on June 02, 2016, 06:18:34 AM
Post by: andreas_g on June 02, 2016, 06:18:34 AM
Boot sectors and disk labels for Intel-systems and their layout on disks are different from their equivalents on disks for black hardware. The first sectors for black hardware contain the disk label, starting with the label version (in this case dlV3).
The layout and data of boot sectors and disk labels depend on what the Boot-ROM of the systems expects. Therefore on Intel-systems the disk must contain the data in the way that BIOS expects. On NeXT hardware it must make NeXT's proprietary ROM happy.
The layout and data of boot sectors and disk labels depend on what the Boot-ROM of the systems expects. Therefore on Intel-systems the disk must contain the data in the way that BIOS expects. On NeXT hardware it must make NeXT's proprietary ROM happy.
Title: Using an SD-Card drive image in Previous Emulator
Post by: wa2flq on June 02, 2016, 11:17:43 AM
Post by: wa2flq on June 02, 2016, 11:17:43 AM
Quote from: "andreas_g"Boot sectors and disk labels for Intel-systems and their layout on disks are different from their equivalents on disks for black hardware...
Thanks Andreas.
I was wondering if that was the case, but was lacking any Black hardware to check it against.
I looked at /NextDeveloper/Headers/bsd/ufs/fs.h but I don't think this was updated on my system for Intel.
Title: Using an SD-Card drive image in Previous Emulator
Post by: gilles on October 10, 2016, 09:49:56 AM
Post by: gilles on October 10, 2016, 09:49:56 AM
hello,
the problem might be in some sort of added partition table or fake partition in the SD/IDE adapter.
This kind of partition is needed to avoid deletion of the content if the SD card is inserted directly in a device (I had the same problem in lisa context to read in emulator a CF image from an X-Profile hdd emulator).
The easiest path is to use a small SD and only format it with minimal "out of the box" system, then try to match SD sectors with emulator image of a similar size.
the problem might be in some sort of added partition table or fake partition in the SD/IDE adapter.
This kind of partition is needed to avoid deletion of the content if the SD card is inserted directly in a device (I had the same problem in lisa context to read in emulator a CF image from an X-Profile hdd emulator).
The easiest path is to use a small SD and only format it with minimal "out of the box" system, then try to match SD sectors with emulator image of a similar size.