Hi All:
3 Questions:
(1) How do you do a fresh install?
I have NeXTSTEP 3.3 and OPENSTEP 4.2 original CDs and made ISOs of them. If I recall, there was a way to boot off the CDs so you could do a fresh install on a target SCSI drive. Does anyone remember how to do this?
ANSWERED:
Previous.app System settings should be as follows:
-Set your system to NOT be a NeXT Dimension system during the install. It seems to bomb with a Dimension card set in Previous.app.
-I did the install using Variable/Turbo and Ram set to 60ns
-Boot order was set to floppy
-Floppy drive was active and set to boot from an image of the moto3.3.floppy image
-SCSI Disk 0 as Harddisk - empty2GB.dd
-SCSI Disk 1 read-only CD-ROM - NeXTSTEP USER 3.3.iso
The following link are to an image of both NEXTSTEP 3.3 CD and the needed boot floppy image (thanks to drakar):
https://winworldpc.com/download/41c2a3cb-9cc2-a118-c39a-11c3a4e284a2Process:
-Once you boot off the floppy, go through the command line install process.
-After the system reboots and boots into the GUI package installer, deselect ALL optional packages and hit Install
-Once the system fully boots up, log into the root user, mount the 3.3. User install CD, and install packages from that CD which can be found in the path: NextCD/Packages
(2) What is the most complete way to install NeXT/OPENSTEP?
I vaguely remember what you want to do is a clean install of NeXTSTEP 3.3 first. Then from that clean install run an upgrade app for OPENSTEP 4.2 to upgrade over NeXTSTEP 3.3. If I remember this is because some of the 3.3 libraries do not exist on 4.2 and apps that have not been upgraded for 4.2 like Improv and maybe some others, need those 3.3 libraries. Does anyone remember if this is correct?
(3) How do you set up a 4GB partition?
Previous.app seems to come with a bunch of disks images. One is an empty 2GB image. But I don't see an empty 4GB partition. Does anyone know how to make a 4GB partition?
Thanks so much for any help! BTW, using Previous 2.2
So I have tried making the ISO 3.3 User cdrom boot drive as a cdrom as either device 0 or 1 on SCSI. It does the very initial commandline installation.
However, after it reboots, the install gets stuck. I've tried many combinations of ejecting the CD, or doing a bsd(1,0,0) to try to boot from the target 2GB partition that i'm installing on. But the install keeps getting hung saying it gave up on mounting /NEXTSTEP_INSTALL or something to that effect.
There has got to be a way to do a fresh install here. Has anyone done this successfully?
Thanks!
If you are using a SCSI2SD, download this image:
https://winworldpc.com/download/c3bc687b-1253-3e11-c3a4-c2a90f7054efExtract and then:
sudo dd if=NS32_2GB.dd of=/dev/disk# conv=fdatasync
You're all set!
Quote from: "mattsoft"If you are using a SCSI2SD, download this image:
https://winworldpc.com/download/c3bc687b-1253-3e11-c3a4-c2a90f7054ef
Extract and then:
sudo dd if=NS32_2GB.dd of=/dev/disk# conv=fdatasync
You're all set!
Thanks. I have images from this forum that already have 3.3 and 4.2 installed. And they work with previous just fine.
The problem is I don't trust installations made by others, spyware/virus/etc (I understand that is highly unlikely but I need to trust the provenance of the operating system).
And the other problem is I don't understand how others managed to successful do an install with previous when it keeps hanging for me... perhaps they did the install on actual next hardware, and then imaged the result for use as a previous image?
Quote from: "zombie"perhaps they did the install on actual next hardware, and then imaged the result for use as a previous image?
that's exactly how I did it...
Quote from: "mikeboss"Quote from: "zombie"perhaps they did the install on actual next hardware, and then imaged the result for use as a previous image?
that's exactly how I did it...
Hmm so for some reason, the emulator is not compatible enough to do a fresh install. So strange. I'll take a screen shot to show where it hangs, maybe it will help.
So for starters, the emulator will not boot correctly if you set the drives up as follows (this is with boot options set to rom monitor so you can try to kick from your preferred drive):
SCSI Disk 0 as Harddisk - empty2GB.dd
SCSI Disk 1 read-only CD-ROM - NeXTSTEP USER 3.3.iso
When you do a rom monitor command of:
the rom monitor kicks back "no SCSI disk"
So then I tried making it as follows:
SCSI Disk 0 read-only CD-ROM - NeXTSTEP USER 3.3.iso
SCSI Disk 1 as Harddisk - empty2GB.dd
after that, the "bsd" command boots into the install CD and you get the:
Type 1 to use the English language and USA keyboard while installing NEXSTEP...you hit 1.
And then you get a prompt to:
The startup disk on this computer is:
SCSI Disk at target 1 (Previous HDD) - 1919 MB
Type 1 to install NEXTSTEP on this disk...
you hit 1.
Then it says:
Ready to install NEXTSTEP
Type 1 to start installing NEXTSTEP...
you hit 1
Then it says:
Preparing disk for NEXTSTEP installation.
This may take a few minutes...
and then shows installation progress like:
Installing /usr/lib/...
===========>............................
That all goes great. That preliminary install suceeds, but then, it asks you to reboot. You type RETURN for it to reboot. It does.
But now it will boot back into the CDROM. If you eject the CDROM and enter the "bsd(1,0,0)" command, it will again fail with the "no SCSI disk" error. So now your only option is to reconfigure the SCSI disk to make the 2GB SCSI0 and the CDROM SCSI1.
When you do this, it seemingly starts to boot correctly.
It gets to the following part:
en:0 address automatically set to 192.0.1.20
lo0: address automatically set to 127.0.0.1
Setting hostname to -AUTOMATIC-And it hangs there for quite a while. You can hit Ctrl-C and break it out sooner, but if you wait it will say
Configuration server not responding to request for hostname
Do nothing to keep waiting or press 'c' to continuetype c and then it will freeze here:
Reinitializing nmserver's network portion
mount: /dev/sd0a on /NEXTSTEP_INSTALL: Device busy
mount: giving up on:
/private/vm/swapfile.front
/user/etc/mach_swapon: swapping on /private/vm/swapfile
Cleaning up: /etc/nologin ptys floppy devices editors /tmp /NET
Starting early deamons: Nov 11 12:30:24 localhost syslogd: cannot create /dev/log: Read-only file system
Starting RPC and network services: portmap routed netinfo lookupd
You can then hit Ctrl-C a bunch of times and you'll get a bit farther in the boot, but it will still eventually hang at "Starting standard daemons: update cron"
So for whatever reason it cannot mount the CD Rom install when you swap the drive SCSI0/1 order even though the CDROM is there.
The problem seems to be that for whatever reason, the bsd(1,0,0) command does not work. I think if it did, I would just keep the boot order the same after the initial install and it should finish.
Appreciate any thoughts/insights.
By the way, is there a way to upload screen shots when posting on here. Or must we host the screenshots on other websites and link to them?
I think it would be great if we could upload directly to the site so the screen caps/etc. stay permanently here.
Have you tried using the boot floppy?
I just tried booting from CD and got the same results you had, but using the floppy worked for some reason.
I put the HD on ID 0 and CD on ID 4. The boot floppy searches for a cd drive, finds it and then installs fine. The floppy image I'm using is from the winworld 3.3 archive, 3.3_Moto_Boot_Disk.img.
Quote from: "drakar"Have you tried using the boot floppy?
I just tried booting from CD and got the same results you had, but using the floppy worked for some reason.
I put the HD on ID 0 and CD on ID 4. The boot floppy searches for a cd drive, finds it and then installs fine. The floppy image I'm using is from the winworld 3.3 archive, 3.3_Moto_Boot_Disk.img.
I always thought that to boot NS/OS on black hardware required an installed disk (either optical or hard drive, or floppy). My understanding was always that black hardware would not boot directly from CD.
Quote from: "eagle"Quote from: "drakar"Have you tried using the boot floppy?
I just tried booting from CD and got the same results you had, but using the floppy worked for some reason.
I put the HD on ID 0 and CD on ID 4. The boot floppy searches for a cd drive, finds it and then installs fine. The floppy image I'm using is from the winworld 3.3 archive, 3.3_Moto_Boot_Disk.img.
I always thought that to boot NS/OS on black hardware required an installed disk (either optical or hard drive, or floppy). My understanding was always that black hardware would not boot directly from CD.
I do not think that is correct.
First, it definitely does boot! And even does the first part of the install correctly (see above excerpts).
Also, The cdrom is just another scsi drive.
I'm not sure there were ever any boot floppies for installation on black hardware. Either magneto, or the external scsi cdrom next sold for a while. Could be wrong, but it definitely can and does boot and have an installer on the cd
Quote from: "drakar"Have you tried using the boot floppy?
I just tried booting from CD and got the same results you had, but using the floppy worked for some reason.
I put the HD on ID 0 and CD on ID 4. The boot floppy searches for a cd drive, finds it and then installs fine. The floppy image I'm using is from the winworld 3.3 archive, 3.3_Moto_Boot_Disk.img.
No I haven't. I didn't even know a blackhardware boot floppy existed! I don't think my original software came with one!? I'll have to look. In the mean time could you provide a link where I might find the floppy image?
Thanks so much, guess I'm wrong about the floppies.
Sure, here's the 3.3 archive:
https://winworldpc.com/download/41c2a3cb-9cc2-a118-c39a-11c3a4e284a2The CD image has intel in the name but it's for m68k as well.
It doesn't seem like the floppy does much other than detect the CD drive and then boot from that, but it must be doing something else to make it work.
Quote from: "drakar"Sure, here's the 3.3 archive: https://winworldpc.com/download/41c2a3cb-9cc2-a118-c39a-11c3a4e284a2
The CD image has intel in the name but it's for m68k as well.
It doesn't seem like the floppy does much other than detect the CD drive and then boot from that, but it must be doing something else to make it work.
I do not remember needing this when I had my cube. Mostly because I never owned a floppy for it..l interesting...
Thanks so much for the pointer!
Quote from: "drakar"Sure, here's the 3.3 archive: https://winworldpc.com/download/41c2a3cb-9cc2-a118-c39a-11c3a4e284a2
The CD image has intel in the name but it's for m68k as well.
It doesn't seem like the floppy does much other than detect the CD drive and then boot from that, but it must be doing something else to make it work.
So wait a second, the link goes to an image of NEXTSTEP USER 3.3 CD, not a floppy. I tried setting it to the image used by floppy but i get an error that you can use floppies that are 1.44 or 2.88MB.
Did you mean use the NEXTSTEP USER 3.3 CD.iso and select it as a SCSI disk4 but, instead of labeling that as a CDROM, label it as read only floppy?
If so, what do you have set for your boot order? Mine if I leave the SCSI boot order as first, it fails to boot because then SCSI0 is an empty disk. If I try the bsd(4,0,0) command using the monitor as the boot order, then it fails. :(
I am missing something. :(
The download is a 7z archive that contains an iso of the CD plus 7 floppy images.
As far as i know you can't install without a boot floppy. There are install CD-ROMs and boot floppys for all version of NeXTstep/OPENSTEP from 2.2 onwards. On older versions you had to use BuildDisk.app to clone a running system to a new disk.
I just successfully installed NeXTstep 3.2 using Previous:
SCSI ID 0: target disk (HDD)
SCSI ID 1: boot floppy in floppy drive
SCSI ID 2: install CD-ROM
Boot with command bsd(1,0,0)
AFAIR only turbo-systems were able to boot from OPENSTEP CDs.
OK so thank you guys. The floppy does indeed get the install to go further, but I'm still getting errors.
So here is my setup.
FD0 moto_3.3_Boot_Floppy
SD0 2GB_Blank_Image
SD1 NEXTSTEP_3.3_InstallCD
The floppy looks for the CDROM and kicks to it, the CD rom does the initial command line install. You reboot. The floppy starts booting, and then kicks to SD0 where install continues.
Then the GUI INstall NEXTSTEP window pops up listing all the packages. The mouse moves WAYYYY too fast, but whatever. I hit the Install button and after a while I get a
Build FAILED!
Swedish Package failed to install.
Some error like that. What is interesting I did this with my own private image of NeXTSTEP 3.3 from my personal CD, AND, from the 3.3 image I downloaded from link provided in this thread. Same error.
Any thoughts here?
Quote from: "drakar"Sure, here's the 3.3 archive: https://winworldpc.com/download/41c2a3cb-9cc2-a118-c39a-11c3a4e284a2
The CD image has intel in the name but it's for m68k as well.
It doesn't seem like the floppy does much other than detect the CD drive and then boot from that, but it must be doing something else to make it work.
So thank you, that was ultimately it.
So following up my own post. It seems you need to DESELECT every single optional install package. Hit INSTALL button, and then the install will finish. Then you can go back after you boot into the system and install all those packages individually (my guess is doing so as root).
I don't remember needing to do any of that back in the day.
So in summary, to get a clean version of NEXTSTEP 3.3 installed, you need to:
Get the motoFloppyBoot floppy, set Previous to use it as a FLOPPY. Set the boot order to boot floppy first. Set your blank 2GB drive to SD0. Set your NeXTSTEP Install CD to SD1. Kick from the floppy, go through the install.
Then, when you get to the first GUI installer package window, DESELECT every optional package except the base package. Hit the Install button. It will finish the install, reboot.
THEN, when the reboot is complete, enable root account, log in as root, go to the NEXSTEP_3.3 CD in Workspace, look in the NextCD/Packages folder, and install any of the optional packages you want from there.
Thanks everyone for helping out here. Thanks so much drakar!
So I think I spoke to soon.
So now I'm in root and I'm trying to install all the extra packages. Every time I try to instal DigitalWebster, the entire system freezes up.
Has anyone successfully installed all the packages without the emulator hanging?
Ok so seems the system is "crashy" when I run the NeXT Dimension. So the trick seems to be to the the entire install on a single monochrome setup.
So I think I will do the entire install again from scratch. Nice and clean. And once it's done, I can then mess with the dimension.
Does anyone remember what the trick was to be able to log into the root account without having to set a password up on your 'me' account.
I vaguely remember it was like right clicking or command clicking or something right after the display process initializes after you log out. But I cannot quite seem to catch it.
It is easy to set up a password for your me account just double click the calendar / clock icon , upper right on dock
this opens the preferences panel , it may open but be hidden behind the file viewer window just move the window with mouse
click the padlock icon ,
set the me account password.
Now when you logout you will have a login screen.
this lets you login as either me or root
you can simply type root with no password and you are in as root ,
this makes it so much easier to install packages and everything else vs having to su to root from terminal window.
While in as root , click the calandar icon again scroll right set unix expert preferences now you will see all the hidden files and you may also want to set the root password..... be sure to set the root password before networking to prevent cluster f mayhem....
Quote from: "Rob Blessin Black Hole"It is easy to set up a password for your me account just double click the calendar / clock icon , upper right on dock
this opens the preferences panel , it may open but be hidden behind the file viewer window just move the window with mouse
click the padlock icon ,
set the me account password.
Now when you logout you will have a login screen.
this lets you login as either me or root
you can simply type root with no password and you are in as root ,
this makes it so much easier to install packages and everything else vs having to su to root from terminal window.
While in as root , click the calandar icon again scroll right set unix expert preferences now you will see all the hidden files and you may also want to set the root password..... be sure to set the root password before networking to prevent cluster f mayhem....
Thanks Rob. But I want to not do that so my installs are "virginal".
And the trick is log out of the me account. Your cursor will 'jump' as the window manager resets, click the mouse button and hold it. If you time it right, it will bring up the login window.
But I plan to back up this virginal clean install for when I might need it. And then yes, once I start using it for myself, I will put in a password for the reasons you give.
Quote from: "eagle"Quote from: "drakar"Have you tried using the boot floppy?
I just tried booting from CD and got the same results you had, but using the floppy worked for some reason.
I put the HD on ID 0 and CD on ID 4. The boot floppy searches for a cd drive, finds it and then installs fine. The floppy image I'm using is from the winworld 3.3 archive, 3.3_Moto_Boot_Disk.img.
I always thought that to boot NS/OS on black hardware required an installed disk (either optical or hard drive, or floppy). My understanding was always that black hardware would not boot directly from CD.
Back when I did my only 4.2 install on my cube it had a floppy (this was almost 20 years ago). It was used to bootstrap the CD. I believe I dangled an old Sony CDR drive I had in an external Sun case off the SCSI port and used the floppy to kick off the install. Worked a treat. One of the easiest installs I've done.
My cube had been in the garbage somewhere so it never had an MO... so was either removed ahead of time or what I don't know. Luckily I had to give it a minor clean and it had plenty of RAM at the time... Can't remember if I upgraded the RAM First.
Ok so I updated my first post providing an answer. I'll continue to update this thread as we get more answers.
Next, a status update and one still minor install problem.
I got a clean install of NEXTSTEP 3.3 User, and then developer. I then successfully did the OPENSTEP 4.2 upgrade of that 3.3 User/Dev install.
However, then when I went to install OPENSTEP 4.2 Developer I got some install errors. First, some of it was due to the order in which you must install the developer packages. So to not get dependancy errors you must install the packages in the following order, I think:
ProfileLibs.pkg
DeveloperTools.pkg
DeveloperLibs.pkg
GNUSource.pkg
DeveloperDoc.pkg
However, I get an error when installing the DeveloperDoc.pkg as follows:
Installing /NextDeveloper/Examples/AppKit/Yap/English.lproj/Document.nib/data.classes ... Not a directory.
**** There were errors while installing DeveloperDoc.pkg.
...errors
It's not the end of the world but I'm not understanding what went wrong for this not to install completely cleanly. Any thoughts?
Ok, one way around this is before you install the DeveloperDoc.pkg is to rename that Document.nib file to something like Document_OLD.nib and then the package will install with no errors.
Now on to install Patch4 User, Dev, and EOF profiles over the system
I did some tests yesterday and could not reproduce the problems installing while NeXTdimension is running. I'll PM you my e-mail address. Please send me your configurstion file and informations about your host system.
As root:
DeveloperTools.pkg
DeveloperLibs.pkg
ProfileLibs.pkg
GNUSource.pkg
DeveloperDoc.pkg
something doesn't sound right with all that corruption.
Is the disk slightly over 2GB?
the floppy has the boot program that'll read CD's. I spent an ungodly amount on a SCSI floppy drive to read it to install 3.3 back when I had hardware and I was pissed, it was only a few KB! ... lol and I could have just dd'd it to the start of a hard disk. sigh.
And yeah you can just DD the CD-ROM to a HD, and boot from that.
I'm pretty sure you can BEN (Booth EtherNet) the boot program as well, although that is a bit involved to setup.
NeXT goes a little crazy when it crosses that 2GB limit.. it'll act okay but slowly destroy itself.
I can confirm on a brand new clean install with a disk slightly over 2, that the Document.nib is not a directory. I just deleted it and the install worked a charm. I basically did a turbo color station as 3.3, then cloned the disk and switched it to a cube with an ND in slot 2. Upgraded that one to 4.2 straight away.
Quote from: Rob Blessin Black Hole on February 17, 2019, 03:12:10 AMAs root:
DeveloperTools.pkg
DeveloperLibs.pkg
ProfileLibs.pkg
GNUSource.pkg
DeveloperDoc.pkg
I'm installing 3.3 at the moment on Previous Emulator. I'm using a 3.3 Developer iso from archive.org but it does not have
ProfileLibs.pkg on the CD?
I'm also now installing
NeXT_EOF-3.3.iso, is there a set order to install each package as listed above for the Developer CD?
NEXTSTEPDeveloperPatch.pkg (before)
EODeveloper.pkg
FoundationUserPatch.pkg ??
EOUser.pkg ??
Thanks
Update 1:
I don't have the link for the developer.iso from www.archive.org but I do have the md5sum and file size:
8f517107b4dbf1b18f060ec96f40920e 403431424 May 29 20:28 developer.iso
384.7MiB in human readable format
End of update
Hello pTek: This should help
https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/LegacyTechnologies/WebObjects/WebObjects_4.0/System/Documentation/Developer/EnterpriseObjects/Guide/EOFDevGuide.pdf https://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Software/EOF/Release%20Notes%20EOF%202.2.pdfNow NeXTstep 3.3 I know EOF 1.1 shipped with it originally
From the Y2k patch read me's
The following is an overview of the files included on this CDROM.
./README
This file.
./NEXTSTEP3.3/CoverLetter.pdf
./NEXTSTEP3.3/CoverLetter.ps
These documents are soft-copies of the letter which was included
in the patch package.
./NEXTSTEP3.3/ReleaseNotes
./NEXTSTEP3.3/ReleaseNotes/NS3.3Patch2_Install.pdf
./NEXTSTEP3.3/ReleaseNotes/NS3.3Patch2_Install.ps
These documents detail Apple's Patch 2 fixes for NeXTSTEP Release
3.3. This patch set includes fixes that address the Year 2000
compliance issue (century rollover). Apple recommends that all
users of NeXTSTEP 3.3 install this patch set.
These Release Notes also document the issues found in Enterprise
Objects Framework (EOF) 1.1.
./NEXTSTEP3.3/ReleaseNotes/3.3Patch1RelNotes.rtfd
This document details Apple's Patch 1 fixes for NeXTSTEP Release
3.3 which was released in 1995. NEXTSTEP 3.3 Patch 2 includes
all fixes in Patch 1.
./NEXTSTEP3.3/Patches
./NEXTSTEP3.3/Patches/NS33CISCUserPatch2.pkg
The Installer.app package containing Apple's Patch 2 for systems
running NeXTSTEP 3.3 User for Intel Processors and NeXT Computers.
./NEXTSTEP3.3/Patches/NS33RISCUserPatch2.pkg
The Installer.app package containing Apple's Patch 2 for systems
running NeXTSTEP 3.3 User for SPARC and PA-RISC Workstations.
./NEXTSTEP3.3/Patches/NS33DeveloperPatch2.pkg
The Installer.app package containing Apple's Patch 2 for systems
running NeXTSTEP 3.3 Developer (for all architectures).
Note: Installation instructions and details on the problems corrected
by this patch set can be found in the ReleaseNotes directory of
this CDROM.
./NEXTSTEP3.3/Drivers
./NEXTSTEP3.3/Drivers/NS3.3ReleasedDrivers
This directory contains "OFFICIAL" drivers which were made
available after the release of NEXTSTEP 3.3 User for Intel
Processors.
./NEXTSTEP3.3/Drivers/NS3.3BetaDrivers
This directory contains "BETA" drivers which were made available
after the release of NEXTSTEP 3.3 User for Intel Processors.
Notes: The latest NeXTSTEP Driver Compatibility Guide can be found
on the World Wide Web at the following location:
http://til.info.apple.com/techinfo.nsf/artnum/n70039 The "DriverDocs.html" file located in this directory will, when
opened in a Web browser, direct you to this information.
Apple Enterprise Software has suspended on-going development of
new drivers for the NeXTSTEP and OPENSTEP product lines. Where
possible, we will be updating current drivers for minor product
revisions. These drivers will be made available in the TIL.
If you have specific requirements for drivers for hardware not
currently supported, contact your AES sales representative for
a quote for custom development work.
./EOF1.1
Information regarding EOF 1.1 can be found in the Release Notes for
NEXTSTEP 3.3 Patch 2.
Quote from: Rob Blessin Black Hole on May 29, 2023, 06:20:10 PMHello pTek: This should help
https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/LegacyTechnologies/WebObjects/WebObjects_4.0/System/Documentation/Developer/EnterpriseObjects/Guide/EOFDevGuide.pdf
https://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Software/EOF/Release%20Notes%20EOF%202.2.pdf
Now NeXTstep 3.3 I know EOF 1.1 shipped with it originally
Thank you for your assistance as always Rob, I hope you are feeling better.
Thank you for providing links for the EOF documentation, I was wondering if I could find it online, will come in handy for an attempt at trying to build a SQL DB app, now with Previous 2.2 running on Lubuntu.
There were 3 EOF isos, One was for OpenStep, and one seemed to be for NeXTSTEP 3.2 or NeXTSTEP 3.3 preview. Really want to try the example that Steve uses on the demonstration video.
I normally install patch 3 after a fresh install of Next Step or Open Step.
Quote from: pTeK on May 30, 2023, 01:20:04 PMThank you for your assistance as always Rob, I hope you are feeling better.
Thank you for providing links for the EOF documentation, I was wondering if I could find it online, will come in handy for an attempt at trying to build a SQL DB app, now with Previous 2.2 running on Lubuntu.
There were 3 EOF isos, One was for OpenStep, and one seemed to be for NeXTSTEP 3.2 or NeXTSTEP 3.3 preview. Really want to try the example that Steve uses on the demonstration video.
I normally install patch 3 after a fresh install of Next Step or Open Step.
I have an original complete complete 3.3 user for sale on my eBay store for $129.95 , if you want to buy it I'll include an original 3.3 developer and EOF 1.1 as well with it pr I can sell you an original EOF 1.1 disk for $19.95 and shipping or drop box the iso , I would include the download link in the paypal invoice or list on eBay. I also have permission from Apple legal to do this charging just a help keep the lights on fee.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285033562195
Quote from: Rob Blessin Black Hole on May 30, 2023, 03:15:05 PMI have an original complete complete 3.3 user for sale on my eBay store for $129.95 , if you want to buy it I'll include an original 3.3 developer and EOF 1.1 as well with it pr I can sell you an original EOF 1.1 disk for $19.95 and shipping or drop box the iso , I would include the download link in the paypal invoice or list on eBay. I also have permission from Apple legal to do this charging just a help keep the lights on fee. https://www.ebay.com/itm/285033562195
Thanks Rob, I've been looking at buying an original CD, don't know what one yet (3.3 or OpenStep) a bit short of money at the moment and at $129.95USD that's a steal, especially looking at the original release prices.
Yes the original NeXTSTEP 3.3 User was $799 an commercial developer was $4999, I handled academic bundle sales nationwide for NeXT outside of Nacscorp which supplied university bookstores , So $6500 worth of software for$299 and a lot of those customers from way back are still friends and customers today. I tried to convince NeXT to try a program releasing the user version to regular users not just at a reduced price not corporate for $299 and had my contacts at computer city as I worked there for a bit , egg head software and comp usa willing to try it at the price point with a few PC ..vendors on board as well. The adobe licensing fee was prohibitive and the wanted to pursue the high price low volume quality customer strategy , NT was the competition and they had hardware companies writing drivers where Next had to write their own. NeXT moved on to Web Objects creaating the dynamic web exclusively with flavors of openstep tools. Companies using NeXT software kept it a secret as it gave them a competitive advantage on several fronts one being NT sucked lol ..... NeXT ported the dev tools over to NT as well. So at one point I was and still am 30 years late lol the last vendor standing on Earth for NEXTSTEP and Openstep .As Apple bought NeXT for $430 million and my friend and commercial contact at NeXT (ham and eggs) and also a heck of a saleman Garret Rice made the call to Ellen Hancock at Apple to close the deal . They needed an OS and were evaluating B OS , Copeland was failing in the development process and Apple was losing 1 billion a month . thread here I wrote an article as well and bam
https://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/index.php?topic=3671.msg20906#msg20906 and the rest well Steve Jobs was back and turned Apple around and itis all history now. Another fun fact this is going to help out our local Fort Collins economy and I know the guys over at Broadcom and have helped them with the old NeXTSTep systems still used in manufacturing silicon to this day at Broadcom
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/05/apple-announces-multibillion-dollar-deal-with-broadcom/ Apple called me the same day I was layed off from Optimal objects for a total of 3 hours and asked if I would like to take over NeXTstep and Openstep sales using my fledgling company Black Hole, Inc and I was off to the races again..
Rob you should keep writing about this. Start a NeXT history thread maybe and move some of these posts there. And others can add to it. A bit like the apple folklore site, but invite others to participate that have bits of NeXT history.
I worked there and all the biographies etc SUCK SUCK SUCK at telling what it was like at NeXT. It was maybe the most eclectic place ever, and some crazy amazing stories. The vast majority of which have not at all come to light. It is still the black hole (pardon the pun) of the history of apple.
Steve Jobs petty incoherent tyrant came in at one end, and out popped the greatest 2nd act in business history.
WHAT HAPPENED in that black box in between has yet to be told.
I created a thread on the topic (to keep this thread more directed to clean install techniques).
You can find it here:
https://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/index.php?msg=29818
Quote from: Rob Blessin Black Hole on February 17, 2019, 03:12:10 AMAs root:
DeveloperTools.pkg
DeveloperLibs.pkg
ProfileLibs.pkg
GNUSource.pkg
DeveloperDoc.pkg
Once again is
ProfileLibs.pkg on the NextStep3.3 Developer CD or only on the OpenStep Developer Iso?
-- Also for those installing on Virtual Box you can use
BusLogic PCI SCSI Adapter(v3.31) when installing NeXTSTEP3.3, in case you don't want go the IDE route as mentioned in many of the Virtual Box/NeXTSTEP 3.3 tutorials.
Auto Detect Ids 0x1040104b
Bus Type PCI
Location Dev:21 Func:0 Bus:0
Family SCSI
it should show up in
more /usr/adm/messages
don't know what
dmesg command is for NS33.
Quote from: pTeK on June 05, 2023, 04:58:47 PMOnce again is ProfileLibs.pkg on the NextStep3.3 Developer CD or only on the OpenStep Developer Iso?
-- Also for those installing on Virtual Box you can use BusLogic PCI SCSI Adapter(v3.31) when installing NeXTSTEP3.3, in case you don't want go the IDE route as mentioned in many of the Virtual Box/NeXTSTEP 3.3 tutorials.
Auto Detect Ids 0x1040104b
Bus Type PCI
Location Dev:21 Func:0 Bus:0
Family SCSI
it should show up in
more /usr/adm/messages
don't know what dmesg command is for NS33.
I confirmed there is NO Profilelibs in 3.3 Developer 4 packages total and probably covered under deveoperlibs.pkg
Quote from: Rob Blessin Black Hole on June 05, 2023, 06:08:27 PMI confirmed there is NO Profilelibs in 3.3 Developer 4 packages total and probably covered under deveoperlibs.pkg
Thank you for confirming this Rob. I really have no idea if people are uploading a version of NeXTSTEP 33 with back doors and it's the main one floating around ???
That's my fear too. I'd love to make a clean set of software that is hash blessed that everyone could trust rely on. That's why original media is important.