I fully realize that a NeXTstation is somewhat obsolete in today's Javascript world. However, it's a delight to use, and I would like to use mine more often.
Here's what I plan, and would love to hear other uses:
Distraction-free writing:
- Long form writing via WordPerfect and exported as ascii via ftp.
- Build a catalog of reading notes, as above
- Write articles for my website and professional work
The machine is ideal for text and the screen and keyboard are a joy to use.
Gopherspace
- Make my own gopher server. Host on my shared webservice or SDF.org
Illustration
Design diagrams in Adobe Illustrator 3.3. I started there, I probably remember more commands than I do in the mess that is Creative Cloud.
Things I'm struggling with:
Usenet
- Amanda app keeps silently timing out when accessing eternal-september.org
SSH
I would love to ssh into Super Defense Fortress sdf.org, but my ssh install throws an 'Algorithm negotiation failed' error.
Terminal
Not much of a problem here, really, but it's hard to go back to FreeBSD 4.3. Funny how things you take for granted are missing. netstat, ifconfig, top, ssh, stuff like that.
Set up a clean NeXTSTEP 3.3 install on SD card:
I have Rob's well-loaded SD filled with goodies. I would now like to make a clean install and selectively transfer some programs to the new system, leaving the original disk intact.
Things that I've done but probably won't use:
Mail:
Pulling up real mail using PopOver is awesome. Unfortunately, most email these days are graphics intensive and unreadable. I pity people who have to use text-to-voice.
Web surfing
I got Omniweb to open a few things, but the https plugins throw errors. Something about an extended character set. Not sure I want to pursue this when most sites render slow and broken. I haven't tried CubX, since the machine is so slow without hopping through several window servers.
So, writing, Illustrator and command line if I get ssh working.
Any other ideas? Comments?
I'll try and answer inline with ####
Quote from: BillAnderson on March 19, 2020, 09:02:35 PMI fully realize that a NeXTstation is somewhat obsolete in today's Javascript world. However, it's a delight to use, and I would like to use mine more often.
#### On the 3rd partition on my SSD full of goodies , you will find the lighthouse applications a microsoft office suite of apps formerly 5k released free:)
Steve Jobs owned part of Lighthouse , Sun bought them for 22 million and put
the developers on JAVA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lighthouse_Design
Here's what I plan, and would love to hear other uses:
Distraction-free writing:
- Long form writing via WordPerfect and exported as ascii via ftp.
- Build a catalog of reading notes, as above
- Write articles for my website and professional work
#### Framemaker is also good ! Pages for writing Web pages.
The machine is ideal for text and the screen and keyboard are a joy to use.
Gopherspace
- Make my own gopher server. Host on my shared webservice or SDF.org
Illustration
Design diagrams in Adobe Illustrator 3.3. I started there, I probably remember more commands than I do in the mess that is Creative Cloud.
##### Diagram is also good and available in those Lighthouse Apps
License keys for the apps http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Software/NEXTSTEP/Apps/Lighthouse_Design/
Things I'm struggling with:
Usenet
- Amanda app keeps silently timing out when accessing eternal-september.org
#### Some of the NeXT 3rd party software may have timeout demos ,
you can usually see if it is
a demo license under the info panel.
SSH
I would love to ssh into Super Defense Fortress sdf.org, but my ssh install throws an 'Algorithm negotiation failed' error.
####
Terminal
Not much of a problem here, really, but it's hard to go back to FreeBSD 4.3. Funny how things you take for granted are missing. netstat, ifconfig, top, ssh, stuff like that.
#### I'll bet you would be able to find an app that'll enhance terminal on one of the Peanuts iso's ! http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Software/Peanuts/ISO/
Set up a clean NeXTSTEP 3.3 install on SD card:
I have Rob's well-loaded SD filled with goodies. I would now like to make a clean install and selectively transfer some programs to the new system, leaving the original disk intact.
#### The easiest way would be to do buildisk . app under rootare you thinking to a new sd card or scsi hard drive?
Things that I've done but probably won't use:
Mail:
Pulling up real mail using PopOver is awesome. Unfortunately, most email these days are graphics intensive and unreadable. I pity people who have to use text-to-voice.
Web surfing
I got Omniweb to open a few things, but the https plugins throw errors. Something about an extended character set. Not sure I want to pursue this when most sites render slow and broken. I haven't tried CubX, since the machine is so slow without hopping through several window servers.
#### We would applaud an upgraded webbrowser solution !
So, writing, Illustrator and command line if I get ssh working.
Any other ideas? Comments?
#### Here are some links to SSH http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Software/OPENSTEP/Apps/Internet/WWW/Web%20Browsers/Omniweb/Plugins/
#### If you find software you are interested in I probably have original NeXT and 3rd party software and packaging I can sell you at a fair price as well.
Hope that helps!
Best regards Rob Blessin
Bill - very glad you've been spending some time with your Next! Which box do you exactly have?
I'll help out with answering some of your questions, as I have time...
Concerning USENET and Alexandra (which is what I assume you meant), I'll put my notes in the NextStep/OpenStep Software section of the forum - look for them there!
Hmmmm - I see /usr/etc/ifconfig and /usr/ucb/netstat . Now, as to whether or not they have the options you're familiar with in much more recent versions under Linux, OS X, Solaris or whathaveyou, well, port away! Though I imagine that could easily be a big job...
What is sad, using NeXT/OPENSTEP, I find it and some of the apps there BETTER than current offerings on macOS. Concurrence, Alexandria, Improv are still best of breed. The tear off windows are better than macOS. The processes panel is non existent on macOS. All the apps and everything are so much more compact. I have a full operating system apps and data all that fit in 2GB, the same thing with macOS would fill 100 times that amount at least.
We have object linking in real time, across networks with NeXT. Doesn't exist with macOS.
In theory we have more advanced systems, in reality we have systems that are dumbed down in almost every conceivable way. Also, the sense of craftsmanship of applications is completely dead today, killed by the App Store and its ilk. The sad thing is going back to NeXT is an upgrade in way too many ways.
Totally agree about Improv -- that is still my all-time favorite spreadsheet application, and it completely blows away Excel (pivot tables, really??) and Numbers.
Modern web browsing is available on NeXT hardware if you use Tenox's fantastic Web Rendering Proxy:
https://github.com/tenox7/wrp (
https://github.com/tenox7/wrp). Using your usual PC or whatever you desire to render the page, it creates a GIF version that is clickable. The entire Web becomes accessible again, without having to worry about TLS/SSL, Javascript etc. Full instructions at the link. All of a sudden you can do nearly everything apart from video/mp3!
Modern web browsing is available on NeXT hardware if you use Tenox's fantastic Web Rendering Proxy:
https://github.com/tenox7/wrp. I want to try this for sure!
After waaay too much time trying to make it's UNIX more modern, I'm saying on balance: Stick to what it's good for - distraction free creativity. I've produced some logotypes on the NeXT, so I'm calling it out as still productive!
I have mine on NFS share, so there's some interop with modern.
Mine is also set up to
* send/receive email
* print to a local cupsd
* ssh to a suitably down-tuned linux jump server
* browse, though I do need to setup wrp
But this is certainly getting into distraction territory.
Quote from: BillAnderson on March 19, 2020, 09:02:35 PMI would love to ssh into Super Defense Fortress sdf.org (//sdf.org), but my ssh install throws an 'Algorithm negotiation failed' error.
I can weigh in on this. The algorithm negotiation error is likely because the host has moved to a newer encryption mechanism that the Next doesn't support. This is a problem on many retro platforms, particularly because HTTPS implementations have begun shifting to newer encryption too -- leaving behind most vintage OpenSSL implementations. (For example, an effort is underway to update the abandoned webOS with a newer OpenSSL (
https://forums.webosnation.com/webos-discussion-lounge/332279-end-support-tls-1-0-1-1-problem.html))
I don't know enough about Next yet to know if you can configure a proxy (and route SSH through) it, but if that's possible, you might consider helping your Next with a Raspberry Pi. I've use this work-around for encrypted web and email traffic on my webOS Touchpad, Sega Dreamcast, and a variety of Macs: a Squid SSL Bump proxy that decrypts the connection (locally). There's a GitHub project that lets you run it as a Docker container, but it didn't work well for me, so I created a fork that runs on the bare metal:
https://github.com/codepoet80/squid-sslbump-rpi (
https://github.com/codepoet80/squid-sslbump-rpi)
I apologize for not responding sooner, there's erm, stuff happening in the world that took me away from vintage computing for a while.
codepoet80, thank you for this clarification, this makes a lot of sense.
rooprob I appreciate your insight. I'm thinking that I'm might go in a different direction: I'm going to build an invite-only pubnix server for vintage computing and 'small web' publishing.
Static pages, gopher server, publish Gemini pages, stuff like that. There seems to be an interesting movement afoot to get away from the invasive spyweb and get back to the old days. I would like to be a part of that movement. It will be curious to see how far this can go, but it's an interesting counterpoint to my day job.
You might find much of that on
http://altexxanet.org/ which has had long-running servers for many of those old protocols. Unfortunately not a ton of content.
I would also like to be a part of the movement for the "internet the way it used to be" but haven't found a home with the critical mass to see it happen. Will follow your explorations with interest!
Both are very nice, thank you!
For archived content in old-computer friendly HTML,
http://theoldnet.com/ does the job.
But I'd really love to see a community pop up that is publishing new content in retro formats. I've got a little side website going here:
http://classic.jonandnic.com but I admit that it gets a lot less attention than my modern Wordpress site...
That's what I'm thinking too, codepoet80. There does seem to be a resurgence of 'tildes', open public unix servers, and there's the Gemini Project that looks to bring back a simpler web.
Gemini uses TLS, so that's a stumbling block, but I think a tilde geared towards vintage computing might be quite fun. My idea is to publish simultaneously in no-ssh-HTML, gopher and Gemini.
My sysadmin skills are a bit rusty by 16 years or so, but I spun up a quick BSD server pretty easily.
https://tildeverse.org (
https://tildeverse.org)
https://gemini.circumlunar.space (
https://gemini.circumlunar.space)
@codepoet80, thanks much for the Squid proxy repo. I'm attempting to build/install it on a Pi 4, running into build errors that are probably fixable. I can push up those changes to a fork if you would be interested in them.
That would be great! Also, be aware Squid 4 and up are a completely different beast than Squid 3.5 that I'm using in that repo and I found the config files were largely incompatible.
Indeed, I took it to be important that 3 be used for OpenSSL support.
And building our own Squid is important to be able to enable options at compile time.
For the non-Docker approach, I ultimately decided to tell today's GCC to treat the truncation bugs in 3.5 as warnings and not errors, by changing `configure` -- remove '-Werror' from C flags.
Also went back to the Docker approach and was able to get a container running, but I think that the master branch of that repo is a little borked; I had to alter the squid.conf construction code. I think the port redirection is still not right despite, or because of, my changes.
I know this is a rather late response as well, but summer/fall I spend as much time as possible outdoors. Winter is my playtime with the old old computers (versus the Apple Powerbook G4s running OS X 10.4/.5 that I use daily).
I do visit Gopher sites quite frequently for updated content - weather and news on gopher.floodgap.com and another site serving up CNN content. Also gopherpedia.com for fast peeks into Wikipedia...
I'm the same @crimsonRE. Winter is for indoor nerdy fun, the other season for outdoor nerdy fun.