I don't think NS will run. AFAIK, the IPX is a sun4c platform and NS is only supported on sun4m, am I right?
That system is pretty similar to my SPARCclassic, and I was never able to get NEXTSTEP to install (the installation stops pretty early saying the hardware is not supported).
Still, I bet the keyboard/mouse and monitor would work with a supported SPARCstation... I plan on using my keyboard/mouse and monitor from my SPARCclassic with a supported SPARCstation (when I get the time) for such a set.
You're right, the sun keyboard/mouse interface hasn't changed between those systems, so type 3-5 keyboards will work, type 6 should also, but I don't know for sure (don't know, which type the new USB keyboards are). The 13w3 video connector is also the same for those machines, until the VGA connectors appeared with the ultras with IDE interface.
So the best bet then is still an SS20?
Shame it looked quite a cool little machine, are any of the "lunch box" SPARCS OK with OS or NS?
Quote from: "brams"So the best bet then is still an SS20?
Shame it looked quite a cool little machine, are any of the "lunch box" SPARCS OK with OS or NS?
The best bet is a SS5 110mhz. The 70mhz versions are supported but slow and the cpu in the 170 is not so the 110 installs without a hitch and really flies compared to even a turbo slab.
Quote from: "blackcube"Quote from: "brams"So the best bet then is still an SS20?
Shame it looked quite a cool little machine, are any of the "lunch box" SPARCS OK with OS or NS?
The best bet is a SS5 110mhz. The 70mhz versions are supported but slow and the cpu in the 170 is not so the 110 installs without a hitch and really flies compared to even a turbo slab.
SS5-110 /w 24bit frame buffer. That is what I have sitting next to me right now. I thought the SS20's were supposed to be a better option, as they are a faster architecture than the SS5's.
Chef
Nexchef,
Were you able to get 24-bit graphics running properly? If so, what were your settings?
I tried 24-bit and got mouse trails and artifacts. I had to drop the resolution down to 8 bits to get it to work on my SS5.
Quote from: "gborgns"Nexchef,
Were you able to get 24-bit graphics running properly? If so, what were your settings?
I tried 24-bit and got mouse trails and artifacts. I had to drop the resolution down to 8 bits to get it to work on my SS5.
I am not sure, how do I tell if it is in 24bit mode or not? I get an artifact every once in a while on the edge of a window, but no mouse trails or other stuff.
Chef
Hmmm, I've never had any problems at all running an S24 board in my SS5 (110MHz). No artifacts, no trails. AFAIK, there really should be no tweaking of settings required (re: the Display Devices section of /NextAdmin/Configure.app)
An SS20 running a 75 or 85MHz SuperSPARC-II MBus module is definitely faster than a 110MHz SS5 - the SS5 CPU has no L-II cache, while these MBus modules have a full meg.
Unfortunately, it may be kinda tough to find the boards/module for 24-bit color on these machines (CG14 VSIMM for SS20, S24 AFX board for SS5). I've been in the UNIX workstation game long enough that I was able to find a couple of each quite a while back, which makes NS 3.3 even more fun to use...
Cheers!
Quote from: "crimsonRE"Hmmm, I've never had any problems at all running an S24 board in my SS5 (110MHz). No artifacts, no trails. AFAIK, there really should be no tweaking of settings required (re: the Display Devices section of /NextAdmin/Configure.app)
An SS20 running a 75 or 85MHz SuperSPARC-II MBus module is definitely faster than a 110MHz SS5 - the SS5 CPU has no L-II cache, while these MBus modules have a full meg.
Unfortunately, it may be kinda tough to find the boards/module for 24-bit color on these machines (CG14 VSIMM for SS20, S24 AFX board for SS5). I've been in the UNIX workstation game long enough that I was able to find a couple of each quite a while back, which makes NS 3.3 even more fun to use...
Cheers!
There is a seller on ebay who had a bunce of the s24 boards for the SS5 that he puts up from time to time. I picked up a couple for $3 each for my SS5's, as I was not sure if I had any in the storage unit with the rest of the Sparc stuff. The SS20 is the one with the built in frame buffer, so all you have to do is insert a VSIMM in the slot to enable it and get 24bit graphics, correct?
Chef
crimsonRE,
How much system memory did you have installed in your SS5 with the S24 board?
I am running the full 256MB and I think there maybe a memory overlap error occuring (i.e. system memory clobbering video memory).
Again, if I set it to 8 bit res. with the configure.app, all is fine. 24-bits no go. Could be the card I guess.
BTW, I picked up a couple of 85 MHz SuperSPARC-II Mbus modules for my SS20 recently (also have the CG14 VSIMM). I plan to give them a try, single processor with openstep and dual processor with Solaris 9.
I tried a pair of 180 MHz Ross processors in a SS20 running Solaris 9. Slow doesn't even begin to discribe the performance. Openstep does not work with Ross HyperSPARC processors.
<The SS20 is the one with the built in frame buffer, so all you have to do is insert a VSIMM in the slot to enable it and get 24bit graphics, correct? >
No, actually the entire framebuffer is on the VSIMM. Here's a good description of the whole shebang (SX = CG14+memory ctrlr):
The SX graphics consists of two major parts:
(1) A dumb framebuffer sitting on the system memory-bus, including
MDI (analogue-display-interface) circuitry. This framebuffer
is called the CG14, and is implemented as a VSIMM.
(2) A dedicated integer-processor with direct access to system memory,
used to accelerate some 2-D graphics primitives and bitblts
between system memory and the CG14 framebuffer (which, on the
SS20, are the same thing from the memory-controllers point
of view). This is implemented as part of the system memory-
controller (aka EMC on the SS20, or SMC on the SS10SX).
Thus: SX = CG14 + EMC (SS20)
or: SX = CG14 + SMC (SS10SX)
The SX is designed for high performance 2D/3D graphics and imaging. It
accelerates common imaging functions such as pan, zoom, rotate, flip,
sharpen and blur and other convolutions. It also accelerates 2D/3D
wireframes and 3D solids. The SX graphics processor is part of the
memory controller and can thus copy data between the video RAM and main
memory at memory speeds typically in the region of 300-350MB/sec. It is
also a 24bit frame buffer. Also the SX does not take up any SBus
slots.
The SX has no built in Z buffer or geometry engine of any kind. It
sits on a faster memory bus than any other pre-UPA framebuffer, which
does help.
Supported in Solaris 2.3 - 2.9(?), certainly in 2.8; however, the hw
graphics features of the SX (which are part of the memory controller)
are utilized only in Solaris 2.5.1 and earlier.
Cheers!
<How much system memory did you have installed in your SS5 with the S24 board?>
I have 160MB in my SS5. Yeah, could be the card. Perhaps try another - they seem to be
cheap when they pop up (infrequently) on eBay.
Yup, no NS or OS on SPARC with Ross CPUs.
Just as you will be trying, I run dual 85MHz SS-II's in the SS20 that has NS 3.3 on an
external drive and Sol 2.8 internally- quite nice.
My old main machine, an SS20SX with dual 75MHz, runs Sol 2.8 and is bearable, but now it
is a fileserver and firewall/NAT box and I use an Ultra60 with dual 450MHz US-II's as
my desktop (along with an Apple Mac PowerCube). The only Microsh*t I have around is an
SGI Visual Workstation 320 running NT4.0 (I've got 12 other running SGI machines for IRIX
fun).
Quote from: "crimsonRE"
Yup, no NS or OS on SPARC with Ross CPUs.
Just as you will be trying, I run dual 85MHz SS-II's in the SS20 that has NS 3.3 on an external drive and Sol 2.8 internally- quite nice.
NS/OS can only use one of the processors in a dual system, correct?
Chef
Quote from: "crimsonRE"<The SS20 is the one with the built in frame buffer, so all you have to do is insert a VSIMM in the slot to enable it and get 24bit graphics, correct? >
No, actually the entire framebuffer is on the VSIMM.
So then all I have to do is remove any existing bus video cards, install a VSIMM in the correct memory slot, and plug into the built in 13w3 connection, and It will have 24bit video support? Can you use more than one VSIMM to get better performance? I see that both a 4M and 8M version is available, and was curious if I could use two 4M instead of an 8M one.
Chef
Yup, Mach for NS will only use a single CPU (I get use of both CPUs when I boot with Solaris 2.8 that's on the other disks in this machine)
When you install NextStep, after popping in the VSIMM, the CG14 driver will be installed. I haven't tried upgrading after the fact, but the CG14 driver is obviously somewhere on the NextStep CD so you'd just have to chase it down and install it using Configure.app..
You can add another VSIMM but you don't get 'cumulative' performance - you just get another video output. And adding a second VSIMM activates a second framebuffer, the output of which must go through an auxiliary SBus board (part number 501-2488). The 4MB VSIMM only supports a max resolution of 1152x900, whilst the 8MB can go up to 1600x1280 (note that I'm not certain of the color depth available for either of these VSIMMs at max resolution).
Now I've never tried having both the SX graphics active as well as an SBus graphics card, but I suspect both can actually work, at the same time - under Solaris, anyway. The X Windows system (which Solaris uses) has been able to handle multiple 'heads' (graphics outputs) for many years. However, I don't believe NextStep was ever designed this way...
Quote from: "crimsonRE"Now I've never tried having both the SX graphics active as well as an SBus graphics card, but I suspect both can actually work, at the same time - under Solaris, anyway.
I assume that the built in video would become the primary adapter, and the sbus a secondary one? The reason I ask is because I remember trying to help a friend with his SS20 that had the video connector on the back broken when a monitor fell off a rack. We put a sbus card in, but could never get any graphics out of it. The system would boot fine and come up on the network, but not graphics. It must have had a VSIMM in it, so the sbus video was disabled. Very interesting. Will have to check if he still has it.
Chef
Hmmm, I've never used a multi-head system and it's been a long time since I've looked at the parameters passed to the X server when it is started, so I'd have to do a bit of research to say if there is a 'primary' output versus a 'secondary' one. Could be that they're just equal...
I assume that your friend's SS20 was running Solaris? Did he have the appropriate driver loaded onto the system for the SBus card y'all added after the SX's connector broke?
Oh, and look what I came (concerning multi-headed):
From the Sparc Hardware Compatibility Guide:
GRAPHICS ADAPTERS
8-bit color and grayscale at 1152x900 or 24-bit color at 1152x900 with
appropriate video system. Release 3.3 supports multiple monitors with graphics
cards for expanded desktop space.
Quote from: "gborgns"crimsonRE,
How much system memory did you have installed in your SS5 with the S24 board?
I am running the full 256MB and I think there maybe a memory overlap error occuring (i.e. system memory clobbering video memory).
Again, if I set it to 8 bit res. with the configure.app, all is fine. 24-bits no go. Could be the card I guess.
I had 160mb in my SS5/S24 and have always had mouse trails (trails of dots) and assumed it was a bad card, or that the NS driver was incompatible with my revision of the card. Anyways, this thread got me thinking about it again (I had put the SS5 on the shelf because the artifacts were too annoying).
I pulled some sticks of ram out of the SS5 that were not exact pairs. I had gotten it up to 160mb by throwing in assorted dimms from my collection of parts. Anyways, the artifacts are GONE. I can't guarantee that anyone else will have the same results but I am really happy, NS looks wonderful now!
:D
Good luck - there are some cards on ebay right now for about $4 if it really is a bad card. I just picked up another one to rehab another 110mhz SS5 I've got.
I picked up a couple of sun systems from an auction (I wanted the monitor, but had to take the whole lot to get it) and one is an IPX Cycle5. From what I can find on the web, this is basically an IPX with an upgraded motherboard that makes it like a SS5. It contains a 110mhz MicroSparcII processor, floppy, and 128M of ram. Since the 110Mhz SS5's can run NS/OS, would this one as well? Anyone tried it before, or know of anyone that has?
Chef
Quote from: "nextchef"I picked up a couple of sun systems from an auction (I wanted the monitor, but had to take the whole lot to get it) and one is an IPX Cycle5. From what I can find on the web, this is basically an IPX with an upgraded motherboard that makes it like a SS5. It contains a 110mhz MicroSparcII processor, floppy, and 128M of ram. Since the 110Mhz SS5's can run NS/OS, would this one as well? Anyone tried it before, or know of anyone that has?
Chef
Nextchef, how do you tell it's a "Cycle5" ?
I have an IPX lunchbox, the faster model, I forget what it is right now. Haven't seen anything about "Cycle5". I'm actually thinking of making the lithium-battery hack for it.
Anyone: I also have a Sparcstation ELC (40Mhz AFAIK, like this:
http://sites.inka.de/pcde/collection/sparcelc.html ) with the lithium battery hack (
http://www.bhargavaz.net/nvram/nvram.html ), for sale if anyone is interested. Maybe I'll bundle the IPX with it too, and a whole bunch of keyboards and optical mice, SCSI tape-drive, whatever other Sun stuff I have. Won't run NS, but sure runs Linux and SunOS :)
Quote from: "da9000"
Nextchef, how do you tell it's a "Cycle5" ?
The one I have has a new badge on the front next to the sun logo that reads "Cycle 5". The motherboard is also very different from pics of other ipx's that I have seen, and contains a different processor. Here is a website for the company, but the links on the page are all dead.
http://www.cyclecc.com/Chef
I was finally able to get around to trying to install NS/OS on my IPX Cycle5, and it worked for OS4.2. I was able to partially install NS3.3, but kept on getting data exception/access errors when trying to reboot to finish setup. OS 4.2, as I mentioned, installed successfully, and boots just fine. Not the fastest of systems, it is basically a sparc5 level machine, but it does have 128M ram, which is nice.
Does anyone know how to configure multi monitor support in OS4.2 for sparc? This machine has the built in framebuffer graphics, and an additional bus graphics card. The machine boots to the additional framebuffer, but the OS4.2 desktop is displayed on the built in framebuffer. I tried adding another framebuffer in the config.app, but do not know quite how to get it working.
Any thoughts or suggestions .. Thanks
Chef
Correct - only one processor is used. You can have 2 in the machine though - NextStep just ignores it...
crimsonRE
Quote from: "crimsonRE"Correct - only one processor is used. You can have 2 in the machine though - NextStep just ignores it...
crimsonRE
Are you referring to cpu processors or graphics processors? My question concerned support for multiple video cards under NS/OS for sparc.
Chef
Quote from: "nextchef"
Are you referring to cpu processors or graphics processors? My question concerned support for multiple video cards under NS/OS for sparc.
I'm 99% sure I had a Sparc 5 or 10 working with multiple displays in NS3.3 a few years ago. I can't help with how anymore, but I can mostly confirm that it should be possible as long as the FBs are all supported by NS. I don't recall it being a difficult thing, at least with my particular setup.
Quote from: "pergamon"Quote from: "nextchef"
Are you referring to cpu processors or graphics processors? My question concerned support for multiple video cards under NS/OS for sparc.
I'm 99% sure I had a Sparc 5 or 10 working with multiple displays in NS3.3 a few years ago. I can't help with how anymore, but I can mostly confirm that it should be possible as long as the FBs are all supported by NS. I don't recall it being a difficult thing, at least with my particular setup.
multiple desktops are already supported in NS - the dual head Dimension-mono monitor setups on Cubes as an example. I can't see why it wouldn't work on a Sparc.
Quote from: "blackcube"
The best bet is a SS5 110mhz. The 70mhz versions are supported but slow and the cpu in the 170 is not
Is it not supported with the message "not supported cpu" or is it not in the list of the officially supported hardware, so the installation is possible, but the system is unstable after the installation?
Quote from: "atar"Quote from: "blackcube"
The best bet is a SS5 110mhz. The 70mhz versions are supported but slow and the cpu in the 170 is not
Is it not supported with the message "not supported cpu" or is it not in the list of the officially supported hardware, so the installation is possible, but the system is unstable after the installation?
If i remember correctly it will not even allow you to install because of the TurboSparc cpu not being supported.
Quote from: "brams"So the best bet then is still an SS20?
Shame it looked quite a cool little machine, are any of the "lunch box" SPARCS OK with OS or NS?
sorry to bump something so old, but i didn't see the answer.
I used to run a Sparc LX which is also a lunchbox shape with 96Mb.
It was a Sun 4M so I am guessing it would have run NS/OS no problem.