Thinking of a vintage-oriented public Unix server...

NeXTComputers.org -> The Mothership

Title: Thinking of a vintage-oriented public Unix server...
Post by: BillAnderson on October 22, 2020, 05:44:58 PM
I'm thinking out loud here. Would anyone be interested in an invite-only public Unix server along the lines of Super Defense Fortress? Something geared towards serving up content for vintage computers?

Thoughts:
- Less about serving up vintage archives and more about modern content that can be served up to older machines.
- I could probably set up FreeBSD jails and provide gopher and non-ssl html pages. No mail, too risky.
- Is this interesting? Boring? Users would have to upload plain old html files and there wouldn't be the other fun stuff like messaging if we go the jails route.

Problems:
- Many of the old machines don't support ssl. Jails and locked down user roles may solve this risk.

Thinking out loud here. I don't know if this is feasable, wildly irresponsible, or even worthwhile. I know that several other Tilde providers eventually stopped their projects  (https://tilde.club/~pfhawkins/defuncttildes.html)because users behaved so badly.

What are your thoughts? What risks do we face, and how to get around them? Serving non-ssl web pages is one thing, but logging into a server, even if it's a jail is another.
Title: Re: Thinking of a vintage-oriented public Unix server...
Post by: pomosapien on September 11, 2021, 09:08:16 AM
It's a cool idea.  Looked at SDF and it's just SSH accounts yeah?

If there's isn't a TLS->HTTP gateway service available already, that would nice to try.  I'm thinking it would be a reflector* for non-TLS clients, ie NeXT running non-TLS browsers.*  The gateway would want to "dumb-down" pages too, to remove new incompatible stuff in HTML5 etc.  Even if you just did a screen-reader translation, which is prevalent now in the modern browsers, that would be useful.

Security implications: traffic on the other side could be sniffed. Old browsers might be leaky, but you also don't put CC #s or passwords in them.  No access to password-oriented services, which leaves a bit out, but it'd be sites that won't work anyway.

Was VPN a thing in the days of NeXT?

I would not try jails until later.


* but maybe the wrong term.
** another thread here says OmniWeb can do SSL (maybe 1.3?), a gateway/reflector would allow other historical browsers to work eg Mosaic (although they would probably need X11).
Title: Re: Thinking of a vintage-oriented public Unix server...
Post by: BillAnderson on September 29, 2021, 11:00:51 AM
There is documentation on this site about creating an SSL gateway using a Raspberry Pi, I believe.
Title: Re: Thinking of a vintage-oriented public Unix server...
Post by: pomosapien on November 01, 2021, 07:22:40 AM
> There is documentation on this site about creating an SSL gateway using a Raspberry Pi, I believe
Indeed. Tried Squid deployed on a Pi and had some success. Maybe a single installation on a public-facing machine (no need for a Pi) could proxy Altexxa and the other retro sites that are behind TLS.

> OmniWeb can do SSL (maybe TLS 1.3?)
No, it looks like something far older.

> Tilde providers eventually stopped their projects
Yeah, definitely necessary to find a tractable approach to avoiding attack, abuse etc, or not go here on any formal scale.

I have a subdomain on Arvixe that is serving up NeXT files at next.haleblian.com .  It is HTTP, no cert or SSL set up.  I'm currently using it to serve content so that it is reachable from NEXTSTEP.  I can provide a filesystem on that as at least a proving ground for non-secrets services. Arvixe doesn't provide enough in their jail to support running a Squid or WRP service there.
Title: Re: Thinking of a vintage-oriented public Unix server...
Post by: crimsonRE on November 17, 2021, 03:20:26 PM
I would have fun with something of this sort!

And if I could just get CryptoAncienne fully running (my actual issue is with the microinetd daemon; I have CryptoAncienne/carl compiled & running on my TurboColor), then the SSL/TLS issue would be fixed for OmniWeb 2.7 under NS 3.3. Dr. Kaiser got it running under NS 3.3 on his HP workstation...

http://oldvcr.blogspot.com/2020/11/fun-with-crypto-ancienne-tls-for.html
Title: Re: Thinking of a vintage-oriented public Unix server...
Post by: BillAnderson on December 07, 2021, 03:18:45 PM
So, how do other groups tackle the telnet/ssl problem? I still want to build this, but can't seem to get past obsolete ssl.
Title: Re: Thinking of a vintage-oriented public Unix server...
Post by: codepoet80 on January 12, 2022, 01:31:33 PM
I provide a Squid SSL-Bump proxy for community members of another dead platform (webOS).
Its remarkably easy, but depends on being able to handle simpler HTTPS encryption and setting a system-wide (or browser-wide) proxy on the client.

http://www.webosarchive.com/docs/proxysetup/
Title: Re: Thinking of a vintage-oriented public Unix server...
Post by: crimsonRE on January 18, 2022, 10:14:42 AM
OmniWeb can do TLS 1.0 with a plugin, and a proxy can be set for it....

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