Hello NeXT people,
I've been revisiting NeXT land over the last few weeks. I first saw a NeXT Cube when my dad worked for the university,
and thought it was the coolest thing ( to a 7 year old). Mathematica struck me as cool - I could let the computer do
the grunt work while I do the driving.
Years later I had the chance to purchase some old NeXT hw from a university for dirt cheap. I jumped at the chance and used
a Turbo Station w/ Mathematica for a lot of coursework. The NeXTLaser is still the best printer I've ever used. Quantrix is cool,
and I wish there were an affordable version available today.
Sadly I'm unhappy with the direction Apple is going - more of a lifestyle/rental business model. I don't
see a future in it for me long term.
So I'm revisiting things and seeing if I could live with NeXTstep on a day to day basis.
I've come to the conclusion that excepting a few areas, anything above a 500Mhz Pentium doesn't actually add anything
to the experience.
So here are my notes on what I'd want to have for a day to day working NeXT system.
- Modern software affordances - GNU tools, package mangers, Retina displays, large filesystems.
- Modern hardware affordances - USB, Audio/video codecs.
- Minor compatability updates - PDF/word conversion, etc.
- Modernish web browser.
- Encryption (SSL, GnuPG, etc)
- video/audio codecs.
- This is the only major thing really differentiating a 500Mhz Intel Openstep system from a current day system.
Things I don't personally need:
- 3d
- Games
Blockers keeping me on M68K over pure intel:
Improv (Can use Quantrix, but would like to have the original)
Mathematica 1.0/2.2 (3.0 has an Intel version available)
Virtuoso (Unless there is a 2.0 release out there?)
So since I like NeXT systems, and would like to actually live in them if I can I spent the evening watching a stupid action movie,
and thinking about my options.
Options
1) Use previous. Enjoy it getting faster with every release. Multithreaded in time.
- Least effort path.
2) Use Openstep Intel and live without M68K programs and DSP, and NeXTLaser printer.
3) Use Openstep Intel and write/build a M68K->Intel object translation layer or JIT.
3A) Write updated drivers for more modern hardware (Sata/NVME?).
4) Use M68K hardware with new pyro/nitro card.
- Difficult as NOS chips are hard to find/expensive. Someone other than me will need to do HW design.
5) FPGA MiSTer emulation
- Long term I bet this would work.
- Plenty of other systems use the same SCSI hardware, etc so VHDL codes can be shared over time.
6) New hardare with something like Coldfire or FPGA M68K recrations and FPGA ASICs.
- Good luck.
7) New hardware based around previous and raspberry PI CM4. Use hdmi/usb/GPIO to breakout hardware interfaces.
- Essentially a Raspberry Pi CM4 carrier board with breakouts to HDMI, USB, NVME, etc.
- These have already been done, just need to do in NeXT cube/station form factor.
CM4 carrier board CAD files are freely available now.
- Can breakout Serial, printer, etc ports - Would need to extend Previous to support this.
- Can use NFS to host RPI for large filesystems.
- Support CD-ROM/floppy via sata or USB interfaces.
- Extend previous to have "NeXT Plus" hardware - mildly improved HW.
- NeXTStation Turbo Colour w/ 1280x1024 video modes, Dimension, etc.
- A faster NeXTBus, etc.
- Minimize the need for new drivers.
- Can also run Linux on "black" HW.
7A) Stretch goal - Build an internal soundbox for a N4000 monitor accepting USB(for KB/mouse/audio) and HDMI over the old NeXT cable,
Install 17" flat panel inside monitor. Colour N4000 monitor! Can have a completely stock looking system, with modern performance.
8) Updated XNU kernel to support new hardware.
- May be possible to combine minor tweaks with 7. (New video modes, etc)
- Seems certainly possible to run on entirely new hardware.
- Can NeXTStep Openstep support new drivers on M68K?
9) An abomination of 3 and 8.
Z) Build own OS around smalltalk the way NeXT was trying to do.
- NeXT Originally built a smalltalk within the limits of the time with prebuilt components.
- Mach hybrid microkernel. Already existed.
- Used ObjC which is a smalltalk like language on top of C. Already existed.
- This is actually a good *business* idea. NeXT abandoned the business side of things
when Apple bought them. So EOF, PDO, etc are all areas that you could "reinvent" and
sell again.
Yea, it's funny. But I feel the same way about macOS these days. And there is so much I love about NeXTSTEP and still prefer.
Sad thing is I dont think you'll be able to get a modern web browser going on NeXT hardware. Even if you could port some open source modern web browser, modern webpages just require too much grunt. An average web page might me over 1megabyte to download, so even via ethernet connection, the processor on only NeXT hardware is going to be glacial (even with a pyro upgrade).
On the intel side, 500mhz machine would also still be super slow, IMO to get a modern browser working, but might be more doable.
One thing you might consider is GNUSTEP. They have slowly been making a NeXTSTEP/OPENSTEP knock off all these years. I like the spirit of what they want to do, but it just seems they still haven't really gotten there and it's fizzled and splintered from the purity of the experience that pure NeXTSTEP had. Also, none of those old apps would work, which is a shame.
Virtuoso is still one of my favorite apps.
Sure, fine, Lets not get hung up on that one thing. A raspberry pi 3b does web browsing just fine. So I'm sure a rpi4 will be blazing fast.
As for GNUstep I forgot to list it. I view it now as a "wrong path". Had it gained ground earlier and had apps like the lighthouse apps been written for it I'd be all for it. But at this point it's too little to late, energy is better directed to writing a real smalltalk system.
Which brings me back to the point. If I wanted to try to live within NeXTstep/Openstep how shall I do that? I've listed a few options above. I actually very much like option 7.
Hello NeXT Community: I think the key to updating everything is the original NeXT source code as the path to easiest resistance. It would be great to implement large hard drive support although with previous , if only it were possible to reach through the NeXTSTEP OS , I recall X Windows let you spin up an app on a faster box and access it over the network . This let folks run faster browsers in a X window on NeXT boxes and it is free
http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Software/NEXTSTEP/Apps/X/CubX-Window.README curious if it work under Previous :)
Perhaps I may have spoken too soon on the coldfire front.
Firebee is a coldfire+cyclone FPGA recreation of the Atari falcon.
http://firebee.org/fb-bin/press_new?lng=ENhttp://acp.atari.orgThe falcon was a 68030+M560001 machine. So if they're recreating that, there's a chance you could piggyback off their work.
I'm pretty sure Atari never used the MMU, so whether all the protected mode stuff would work is up in the air. Benchmarks show it was 43x the original Atari falcon.
Which is fast enough to do a full 32bit desktop - think dimension here, with instantly snappy application (Mathematica, Frame, Virtuoso, etc) performance. That's all I need.
I also found this:
http://www-user.rhrk.uni-kl.de/~alles/fpga/A guy who partially implemented a 56001 in VHDL.
Quote from: spitfire on May 02, 2021, 03:34:01 PMThe falcon was a 68030+M560001 machine. So if they're recreating that, there's a chance you could piggyback off their work.
I'm pretty sure Atari never used the MMU, so whether all the protected mode stuff would work is up in the air.
All versions of NeXTstep require an MMU and an FPU. It won't boot without. On the other hand it is possible to run NeXTstep without DSP. That does not cause any major problems, just some missing features.