As far as I know we are officially allowed to host ROM images in the files section of this website.
I'd like to include the ROMs inside Previous' application bundle. Could that cause problems?
strictly speaking, Apple has the copyright. on the other hand, I seriously doubt that anybody will come after you for including the ROM files of a niche hardware that was abandoned 30 years ago. und ausserdem: wo kein klaeger da kein richter ;-)
I would go ahead and say yes to including Rom's in future Previous releases and if Apple ever asks about it, I have contacts at the highest levels of Apple and in Apple legal that I would connect them with.
Thank you for your reply, Rob! This is good news!
Quote from: andreas_g on December 28, 2022, 01:59:57 AMThank you for your reply, Rob! This is good news!
Hello Andreas: In fact I will ask permission from Mike as he was in charge of updating the roms at NeXT , if he thinks it would be OK or if he knows who we should contact :) In the interim I think it is OK but it would be nice to have official permission . Best Regards Rob Blessin
Here Is the response from Mike ....
Hi Rob and G'day from Australia,
I certainly can't speak for Apple or NeXT on NeXT related intellectual property ownership or rights issues. While I was the last engineer at NeXT to work on the M68K ROMs, I left the company in 1995.
-M
On Thu, Dec 29, 2022, 10:37 Rob Blessin Black Hole , Inc <bhi1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
Hello Mike: I hope you are doing well!
A quick question ,at nextcomputers.org , we have been developing a home brew NeXT 68K emulator for NeXT enthusiasts for about 10 years now.
In our NeXT Software archives , we have the old NeXT68K hardware rom files. I recall you worked on these
http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Software/ROM_Files/ For the newest release of Previous would it be OK to add the rom files into the configuration section of the Previous App as currently it requires a separate download .
I thought I should probably ask and am not sure if anyone at Apple other than the original NeXT jedi would even know about the NeXT 68K Hardware rom files.
Apple has also released all early versions of Mac OS X up to Mountain Lion Free , this includes all versions of Mac OS 9.1 and earlier which is later than the time frame of the Roms :)
I doubt anyone would come looking for old legacy NeXT hardware rom files after 30 years but just thought I would ask the expert on all things NeXT rom's out of respect :)
Happy New Years!
##############
I'm thinking 30 years later the trail probably has gone cold.
I decided to call my friends at Apple legal and they said
fill out this form
https://www.apple.com/legal/contact/rights-permissions.html and simply describe what permissions we need , I've got this; I think the approach I will use is first and foremost , we need these files to maintain original NeXT 68K hardware and would like it to carry over to cover Previous M68K emulator which lets us run original NeXT applications in emulation on modern Mac Hardware. Which has come in as a positive asset for use on Apples litigation side in Prior Art Patent Litigation cases showing legacy NeXT and 3rd party software in action, I'm under NDA so can't go into specifics but :) the response should be interesting and at least we will know. If I can get the approval for the roms , it may further open the door for our quest to have NeXTSTEP released to free public domain (How fun would that be) as a tribute to Steve Jobs and everyone involved with NeXT as well. This would go way beyond just my current distribution contract that I updated a few years ago after 25 years. As believe it or not NeXTSTEP 3.3 commercially is still used in silicon chip manufacturing. That is a whole other war story lol .
I'm not sure if it is a good idea to ask for permission at official Apple legal department. These big companies tend to be not very flexible with such things. We might be forced to pull the ROMs even from the files section.
Have to admit that I thought the exact same thing when I saw the quoted emails. There's some advice about not asking a question when you're not sure you're going to like the answer you'll get.
Quote from: andreas_g on December 30, 2022, 03:19:39 AMWe might be forced to pull the ROMs even from the files section.
Maybe we should start to think about writing an open source firmware replacement for Previous?
Quote from: andreas_g on December 30, 2022, 03:19:39 AMI'm not sure if it is a good idea to ask for permission at official Apple legal department. These big companies tend to be not very flexible with such things. We might be forced to pull the ROMs even from the files section.
Hello NeXT Community: I asked for permission for everything all old NeXT Software be released (as a tribute to Steve Jobs) and the NeXT Community; the roms, the User, Developer, boot floppies, drivers, patches and pointed out that NeXTSTEP 3.3 was given away free at one point by Apple as part of the Y2K program and it is documented in the Apple archives. I think there is a good chance of a response clarification and a better chance of no response at all let's call it 50/50. I have also tried calling the number 408-253-0186 (Busy) and I will snail mail a letter attaching the original Y2K letter from Apple and my past correspondence explaining , hey we honestly have Apple's NeXT legacy best interests at heart hear and are ethical. We are looking to acknowledge Apples Copy wright pf the NeXT legacy Roms and Software as a vintage software throw back. Given the chance I will also explain this will be used in education , as Previous running NeXTSTEP allows the very first web browsers to run and will be used in the State of California (True) in a new educational program showing today's youth interested in programming .. the very foundation of NeXTSTEP Developer Tools ... Mac OS leading to smart phones , roots of the world wide web and 3D gaming ... I have a plan to make a huge DING in the universe !
Hello NeXT Community: I already have this official correspondence from Apple which is huge :) and by definition it should carry over to previous 68K Emulator. I have had success backing up and restoring legacy Apple / NeXT Customers original Files and applications using our custom mission critical NeXT 68K Hardware / Software RECOVERY TOOL = Previous 68K emulator on modern Apple Hardware.
Stay Tuned:
Many NeXT Community customers , some are now in their eighties are emotionally happy to be able to use all of their favorite old NeXT apps and access years worth of their work, it is a miracle.
NeXT developers also will back me up on this genius solution as it makes it so much easier to work and compile NeXT apps.
"Previous" created by our talented NeXT Community over 10 years has saved some amazing computing history from disappearing, it is like a time machine of sorts as new NeXT applications are now be created out of thin air like Darkmatter as well , kudos IMHO and it will also be fundamental in teaching students in the future about the roots of the world wide web , developer tools and apps , etc in classroom environments. :) Chaaaarge lol ...
So far .....
Mr. Blessin,
To confirm, we understand that you desire to provide the following services for NeXT m68k-based personal computers:
* backups
* restores
* upgrades to Y2K-compliant versions for both NeXTSTEP and OpenStep operating systems,though again only for NeXT hardware.
Under the circumstances, we don't believe we have issues with you providing such services, and we require no further information or consideration from you.
Sincerely, Ernest Prabhakar Apple Computer
"though again only for NeXT hardware."
This always implied a NeXT serial number. To comply, I used to buy an empty case from you and supply that serial to Apple. I imagine there would be a similar expectation.
Quote from: itomato on January 08, 2023, 02:41:10 PM"though again only for NeXT hardware."
This always implied a NeXT serial number. To comply, I used to buy an empty case from you and supply that serial to Apple. I imagine there would be a similar expectation.
This is where it gets interesting as I was put in touch with the VP of software sales at Apple before she retired . I had purchased a high end Bravo CD Duplicator with Label printer , she was well aware of NeXTSTEP as Apple called me to handle all of the NeXTSTEP and Openstep software distribution then Y2k came up and I still have the contract from Apple for NeXTSTEP reseller software distribution , I sent in my disks to her for final approval and she retired after 30 years lol . She passed them along and I received my disks back stating Apple has no use for my Software but they appreciated the effort and good luck with my endeavor. I do not know how many rev's of employee's since but the cold hard facts . We are not trying to rip Apple off lol , we are pleading for mercy , clarity of 30 year old software. I was also told by my contact's at Apple's legal department that if anyone has serious questions about any of this officially as recently as 2 years ago to forward inquiries from them to him. Apple also approved me to sell and support runtime licenses to Texas Instruments as they do not want anything to do with it , I was told unless it involves a contract with a whole lot of zeros in it lol. For the solid approval of NeXTSTEP Intel runtime licenses with license keys I generate at $99 I said well that is a good thing because the production systems in question are actually manufacturing chips for the I phone. I also suggested Apple buy TI, Lam Research for vertical integration etc , no brainer and they did buy Intel's mobile chip division shortly after and it made sense. I love to hear from Apple any time, I did send them another inquiry a week ago specifically about this. I also recently integrated a nice Turbo Color for someone at Apple in the top hierarchy of management and I believe their is one of my mono turbo's running in the IOS development offices all cool stuff. I can go on and on with war stories , they actually renamed the office I was working at Apple in Cupertino a few years back the patent war room another true story lol and since then it has been much easier for me to do the NDA work for Apple from here at home. i also tried this number again 408-253-0186 (Busy) listed for support for rights and permissions , I'll keep trying s what we are doing is actually a good thing IMHO. It would be cool to go right to the top ,I'm not afraid to ask Tim Cook for permission from Apple the NeXT Roms and NeXTSTEP , Openstep etc. :) then Shantanu Narayen over at Adobe to unleash permission for the old NeXTSTEP postscript and source for it all . As you all know the released the postscript code for free
https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/22/12/10/2155203/source-code-for-adobes-postscript-publicly-released