Hi
I read somewhere that the NRO (National Reconnaissance Office) purchased NeXT computers and then sold off the supply to the public at the end of life.
Does any one know what the numbers were for the government/CERN purchases were? Was it in the range 0-100, or 100-1000, or maybe 1000+?
Also what the ratio would have been, i.e 90 NeXT computers/software licenses were purchased, with 10% of that being the Developer suite as well. I'm pretty confident that it would not have been 100% Developer licenses. Even the Universities, does any one know what the ratio would be for that of User to Developer licenses.
1000+ licenses for a company seems a lot, especially regarding the cost and the hardware (RAM) requirements at the time.
Thanks
I'm not sure if they have a 'range'. It's a great question.
I think the official story is that only 50,000 next machines were ever made (and I guess that includes all models, 030/040/turbo cubes, stations mono, and stations color).
Also, not sure how much surplus that was sold to Rob counts into those numbers.
I suspect many more than 50k were made. Some went to the the government for above board use and probably have ranges. I also suspect some went to 3 letter agencies for many sensitive projects and those probably have no tracking. I also suspect that those may have been destroyed at end of life though.
That's just a theory I have. My only substantiation is the surplus that Rob got was a LOT for just 50k units out there. But I could easily be wrong.
From what I've read from multiple sources the 50K does NOT include government sales. So 50K+whatever went to NSA/CIA/USGOVT/ETC.
Did Rob get a lot of systems? Seems like he's working out of his apartment. Or does he have warehouses full of Dimension boards stacked somewhere?
We could start a NeXT registry similar to this C64 serial number registry (
https://c64preservation.com/?pg=registry) to see how many machines are still out there.
oow! oow! I can use Mathematica to calculate the german tanks problem!
That's actually not an entirely stupid idea. We'd get some idea of how many systems there may actually be.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tank_problem
I know I've had a number of machines that came from the government, including a few that I am sure were used by some 3-letter acronym folk, and at least 2 from LLNL. One had a sticker certifying that it wasn't radioactive!
Quote from: spitfire on July 08, 2023, 11:46:21 PMFrom what I've read from multiple sources the 50K does NOT include government sales. So 50K+whatever went to NSA/CIA/USGOVT/ETC.
Did Rob get a lot of systems? Seems like he's working out of his apartment. Or does he have warehouses full of Dimension boards stacked somewhere?
Rob got a LOT of stuff! He's been at this for decades, but I believe his original/early deliveries involved a warehouse. I'm sure after decades, he has a lot less stuff around. But maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully Rob will chime in here.
Quote from: gtnicol on July 09, 2023, 08:27:37 PMI know I've had a number of machines that came from the government, including a few that I am sure were used by some 3-letter acronym folk, and at least 2 from LLNL. One had a sticker certifying that it wasn't radioactive!
I'm guessing that NS was more common in academic circles in he US compared to New Zealand because of the extra taxes added on for importing. Percentage wise obviously and because of the traveling sales and NeXT training courses available stateside.
Were NeXT training courses common in Europe?
What license did it come with? NS 3.3 Developer or NS 3.3 User?
NeXT 1 Was Developer and User were the same license and they weren't issued as two different licenses until version 2?
Surely if you brought 100 licenses only 10 would be developer for a company?
Rob how many developer licenses can you remember selling?
Thanks
Greetings, NeXT Community! I recently had a conversation with Shannon Edwards, who used to run Deep Space technologies, and we both came to the conclusion that the number of units produced was likely nowhere near 50,000. It seems that they intentionally skipped serial numbers in the high teens, 20s, 30s, and 40s to prevent competitors like Sun from predicting the market's size. Our best estimate is that there were around 8,000 Cubes and somewhere between 20,000 to 30,000 stations manufactured. The production timeline includes only 400 Cubes shipped in '88 and '89, and then an introduction of the NeXT Workstation in '90, followed by '91, '92, and early '93, which marked the transition to Intel, HPPA Risc, and Sun Support.
I remember hearing estimates of installations at various places, including Universities, Corporations, Trading firms, Banks, Telecommunication companies, and Government institutions. Unfortunately, many of these units were eventually recycled. I recall hearing stories about Steve Jobs ordering numerous prototypes to be thrown away at NeXT, but fortunately, some engineers managed to save a lot of them. Similarly, at Apple, where I worked, they discarded valuable items during corporate cleaning. There were only a few dozen NeXT computers in the room I worked in, and it became known as the Patent War room due to a successful prior art case back in the day.
Fast forward to 2023, I find myself dealing with significant physical challenges, making even short walks painful. Despite seeking medical help from various professionals, the pain persists, but I remain determined not to give up. Hiring assistance has been challenging, with several people failing to show up for the part-time work I offered, even though the pay was good.
Regarding my passion for NeXT hardware, it remains alive, and I continue to invest in maintaining and supporting the NeXT community. I recently ordered sound cards from Brian, Zulu SCSI from Alex Rabbit Hole, custom cables from Alex in the UK, and a hundred more inside NeXT books from Luciano in Italy. It brings me joy and a sense of honor to contribute to the preservation of NeXT hardware and the vibrant NeXT community.
Apologies for not being more active in the community; my health issues have been a significant challenge. But I appreciate everyone's patience and support. If you could see me, you'd hear some colorful language due to my aching left hip, but you'd also witness my determination to get things done. Some days I use a wheelchair to move monitors, but on better days, I try to lift them myself. The positive side is that I've managed to lose 60 pounds this year, which is helping me cope better.
Thank you all once again, and I'll keep contributing to the NeXT community as long as I can. Peace!
Sense of humor required here was Chat GPT's response to be offered a job , lol Hello Chat GPT: Would you be able to build a robot body for your personna with specific talent in packing and shipping old NeXT computer hardware and software which was partially responsible for creating AI through NeXTSTEP object oriented programming call it your grand daddy . I need help lol are you interested , I would be able to pay you in cool vintage old computer hardware and feed you software ?
ChatGPT
Hello! As an AI language model, I don't have a physical presence or the capability to interact with the physical world. I exist solely as a text-based program and cannot build or operate robots or accept physical compensation. My purpose is to assist with answering questions, providing information, and engaging in conversations through text.
However, I'd be more than happy to help you with any information or guidance related to packing and shipping old NeXT computer hardware and software, NeXTSTEP programming, or any other topic you may need assistance with. Feel free to ask any questions you have, and I'll do my best to assist you! Me thinking good at least our human packing and shipping jobs are safe for now ....
Quote from: Rob Blessin Black Hole on July 20, 2023, 03:42:09 AMGreetings, NeXT Community! I recently had a conversation with Shannon Edwards, who used to run Deep Space technologies, and we both came to the conclusion that the number of units produced was likely nowhere near 50,000. It seems that they intentionally skipped serial numbers in the high teens, 20s, 30s, and 40s to prevent competitors like Sun from predicting the market's size. Our best estimate is that there were around 8,000 Cubes and somewhere between 20,000 to 30,000 stations manufactured. The production timeline includes only 400 Cubes shipped in '88 and '89, and then an introduction of the NeXT Workstation in '90, followed by '91, '92, and early '93, which marked the transition to Intel, HPPA Risc, and Sun Support.
I remember hearing estimates of installations at various places, including Universities, Corporations, Trading firms, Banks, Telecommunication companies, and Government institutions. Unfortunately, many of these units were eventually recycled. I recall hearing stories about Steve Jobs ordering numerous prototypes to be thrown away at NeXT, but fortunately, some engineers managed to save a lot of them. Similarly, at Apple, where I worked, they discarded valuable items during corporate cleaning. There were only a few dozen NeXT computers in the room I worked in, and it became known as the Patent War room due to a successful prior art case back in the day.
Fast forward to 2023, I find myself dealing with significant physical challenges, making even short walks painful. Despite seeking medical help from various professionals, the pain persists, but I remain determined not to give up. Hiring assistance has been challenging, with several people failing to show up for the part-time work I offered, even though the pay was good.
Regarding my passion for NeXT hardware, it remains alive, and I continue to invest in maintaining and supporting the NeXT community. I recently ordered sound cards from Brian, Zulu SCSI from Alex Rabbit Hole, custom cables from Alex in the UK, and a hundred more inside NeXT books from Luciano in Italy. It brings me joy and a sense of honor to contribute to the preservation of NeXT hardware and the vibrant NeXT community.
Apologies for not being more active in the community; my health issues have been a significant challenge. But I appreciate everyone's patience and support. If you could see me, you'd hear some colorful language due to my aching left hip, but you'd also witness my determination to get things done. Some days I use a wheelchair to move monitors, but on better days, I try to lift them myself. The positive side is that I've managed to lose 60 pounds this year, which is helping me cope better.
Thank you all once again, and I'll keep contributing to the NeXT community as long as I can. Peace!
Rob where are you in the country. Not sure it's useful but I have some days off where I'd be happy to stop by and lend a hand if that's helpful.
I wish you firer and continued recovery and hope you feel much better. Personally, I'm beyond super grateful, for everything you've done. You truly are a gift to the computing world and its history.
Hoping you continue to do your great work and enjoy it.
Quote from: zombie on July 20, 2023, 12:46:53 PMRob where are you in the country. Not sure it's useful but I have some days off where I'd be happy to stop by and lend a hand if that's helpful.
I wish you firer and continued recovery and hope you feel much better. Personally, I'm beyond super grateful, for everything you've done. You truly are a gift to the computing world and its history.
Hoping you continue to do your great work and enjoy it.
Hello Zombie: Thank you for the offer to help and everything else. I'm in Fort Collins, CO , well I think I have a solution that might work or at least help with moving the monitors , a hydolic lift table
https://www.harborfreight.com/500-lb-capacity-hydraulic-table-cart-61405.html
Quote from: Rob Blessin Black Hole on July 20, 2023, 02:49:43 PMHello Zombie: Thank you for the offer to help and everything else. I'm in Fort Collins, CO , well I think I have a solution that might work or at least help with moving the monitors , a hydolic lift table https://www.harborfreight.com/500-lb-capacity-hydraulic-table-cart-61405.html
I have never been to Fort Collins but have driven through CO once and it's beautiful. Unfortunately I'm about a 15hour drive away. That looks like a nice rolling lifting caddy!
Hello Zombie: Looks like it will work for lifting and moving heavy stuff :) Best Regards Rob Blessin
Studying part time at the moment so I can't help you either Rob, otherwise I would of offered help for 1-2 months and went for a holiday stateside. I still have to visit the Americas, I have some friends over there I would like to see and also go to Disney Land/World.
"@Rob Blessin Black Hole". Even in the 90s I don't think a university would have purchased 100+ NeXT units sadly they were a bit too pricey, but to have 8MB RAM in 1989 8-)
Redwood City, CA
Chairman/CEO Steve Jobs
WW Software Revenue: $43.4M T o t a lCorp. Revenue: $49.6M Revenue per Employee: $180.4K
NeXT seems to be living up to its promise to transform itself into a software provider, reporting a remarkable 321% increase in software revenue, from $10.3 million in 1993 to $43.4 million in 1994. Total corporate revenue increased 247% to $49.6 million. Net profits were $1million.
U.S.-based sales ere $36.5 million, up from the year-earlier figure of $9.6 million. Non-U.S. revenue climbed from the $700,000 mark in 1993 to $6.9 million.
NeXT's products include the NEXTSTEP object-oriented operating system, OpenStep object-oriented development tools, and Enterprise Objects Framework.
NeXT ended the year by releasing NEXTSTEP 3.3 for Intel and Motorola platforms. NEXTSTEP Developer 3.3 is in beta test. Sidebar:
Computer Makers See Gold In Software
tI may surprise some ot discover that the world's top computer manufacturers, though not eligible for Software Magazine's Top 100 ranking of independent software vendors, are among the world's highest revenue earners in the software arena.
nI fact, according ot International Data Corp., Framingham, Mass., the the software revenue of eight computer makers--IBM, Hewlett-Packard Co, Digital Equipment Corp., Unixys Corp., AT&T Global Information Systems, Sun Microsystems Inc., Groupe Bul, and Apple Computer, Inc.-would place them among the Top 10companies in our ranking.
Over the years, most oft he top computer firms have made bold initiative into a variety of software markets but none has found significant success outside their operating system platform. For example, several IBM initiatives of the late 1980s failed due to a reliance on MVS-based mainframes. Nonetheless, IBM continues to spend huge amounts developing and selling software, which accounts for more than twice the overall revenue$11.2 billion -of software giant Microsoft Corp.
IBM has shifted gears to focus on multivendor, multiplatform development efforts. The company is now taking on top RDBMS vendors with versions ofDB2 for non-IBM systems.
The firm hope its initiatives will further its software revenue growth, which resumed in 1994 following a 1993 drop to $10.9 billion from 1992's$11.1 billion. IBM blamed declining midrange software sales for the 1993 tumble.
Stephen Mills, vice president and general manager of IBM's Software Solutions Division ni Somers NY, notes that Big Blue generated $1.3 billion in revenue from its DB2 line during 1994. He predicts sales will increase rapidly as the software is ported to the platforms of competing hardware vendors.
Conversely, Hewlett-Packard Co,. Cupertino,Calif., has virtually jettisoned its various database management systems ot concentrate software efforts on development and systems management platforms. The firm's software revenue has more than
doubled over five years, toaround $1.2 billion in 1994.
Early this decade, Digital Equipment Corp., Maynard, Mass., started an effort to develop applications for multiple platforms that was halted during the turmoil following the ouster of founder Kenneth Olsen in 1992. Uncertainty ni software strategy is seen as a key reason for flat software sales between 1990 and 1994. In 1990, DEC's software sales totaled $940 million, says DIC.
Last year, the firm sold $935 million worth of software.
Spinning-off Software
Hardware companies have continually tried to take advantage of broad distribution channels and investments to make money ni the software arena, even to the point of creating separate software units. This year, Unixys Corp., Blue Bel, Pa., for example, created and invested$50 million in USoft a, a wholly owned subsidiary, to developand sell multiplatform development tools.
Meanwhile, Unisys isconcentrating on a so-called "solution sell,"which Ron Bell,Unisys' chief technical officer, describes as "putting together what pieces are needed by the customer."
For its part, Amdahl Corp., Sunnyvale, Calif., spun of its software business ni 1993 to create the Antares Alliance Group with co-investor Electronic Data Systems, Dallas. Antares claimed software revenue of $34 million in 1994.
Then there's SunSoft Inc., which Sun Microsystems, Mountain View, Calif., created several years ago to oversee operating system development and to create an object-oriented environment and other systems software. Sun's software revenue shot up to $706 million in 1994 compared to the year-earlier total of$620 million.
Other computer makers aer also faring well in their software dealings. AT&T GIS, Dayton, Ohio, and Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, Calif., saw software revenue increase significantly during 1994. AT&T's software sales were estimated by IDC at $743 million, up from the 1993total of $700million,while Apple's 1994 software sales totaled $480 million, up from $433 million in 1993.
Most of these firms would admit the difficulty of convincing users that they will be as diligent about supporting software running on competing platforms as they would on their own systems. Nevertheless, the opportunity for growth in the software business--as shown in the figures compiled for this issue will keep them trying
I believe Randy Rencsok, who sold NeXT hardware through www.channelu.com BITD, got a lot of his stock from either the CIA or NSA - perhaps tracking him down to ask about this would shed some light on this subject...
Quote from: crimsonRE on July 31, 2023, 01:24:20 PMI believe Randy Rencsok, who sold NeXT hardware through www.channelu.com BITD, got a lot of his stock from either the CIA or NSA - perhaps tracking him down to ask about this would shed some light on this subject...
Oh thanks for the memory rabbit hole, good memories hunting for my 1st NeXT
Where to buy (
https://web.archive.org/web/20001029225642/http://www.channelu.com/NeXT/Price/index.html)
I just happened to be watching The Computer Chronicles - The Internet (1993) (
https://youtu.be/U_o8gerare0?si=PiZ3E-3rrCSJNbB4) and it shows a triple screen NeXT with ADB keyboard and mouse being used at ARPA.
It appears around 3:37 and 5:42. The appearances are brief - just a few seconds each.
Any one know how much RAM these second hand ex government machines came with? Just wondering if they maxed the RAM on the machines or if it would be like a normal company.
Best computer machines go to CAD, Mathematical Modelling, standard machines go to everyone else.