monitor differences for colorstation and turbo colorstation?

Received my Turbo Color station in today, and have a question about monitor support.  I have been using an acer lcd with my colorstation with no problems, but when I hooked up the turbocolor, the monitor flashes on and off.  Are there any different monitor requirements between the two?  I used the same non-adb soundbox, cable, adapter, and keyboard/mouse, just switched the connector from one machine to another.  I will pull a crt out tomorrow and see if it shows the same thing.

Any reason for this behavior?  Anyone seen this before?

Chef

Quote from: "nextchef"Received my Turbo Color station in today, and have a question about monitor support.  I have been using an acer lcd with my colorstation with no problems, but when I hooked up the turbocolor, the monitor flashes on and off.  Are there any different monitor requirements between the two?  I used the same non-adb soundbox, cable, adapter, and keyboard/mouse, just switched the connector from one machine to another.  I will pull a crt out tomorrow and see if it shows the same thing.

Any reason for this behavior?  Anyone seen this before?

Chef

No, i'm using different NeXTs with my TFT, a dimension board, colors with non-ADB, turbos with ADB, and the TFT is still showing a fine picture.

Quote from: "nextchef"I have been using an acer lcd with my colorstation with no problems, but when I hooked up the turbocolor, the monitor flashes on and off.  Are there any different monitor requirements between the two?

Any reason for this behavior?  Anyone seen this before?

Chef

Andreas is correct. Both machines should work. I would trying different parameters in the monitor firmware [meaning the settings display] to "reset" the LCD. Many of them have an "auto adjust preference [or button] in the OSD [on screen display] or a physical button on the monitor itself which "re-synchs" the monitor settings with the new device [computer].

Quote from: "nextchef"Received my Turbo Color station in today, and have a question about monitor support.  I have been using an acer lcd with my colorstation with no problems, but when I hooked up the turbocolor, the monitor flashes on and off.  Are there any different monitor requirements between the two?  I used the same non-adb soundbox, cable, adapter, and keyboard/mouse, just switched the connector from one machine to another.  I will pull a crt out tomorrow and see if it shows the same thing.

Any reason for this behavior?  Anyone seen this before?

Chef

I've noticed the same thing with my Dell 2001FPs -- that non-Turbo Color Stations work fine, but that Turbo Color stations have display problems.  I've verified this with multiple machines and multiple 2001FPs, no matter what the settings and even after auto calibrations.

My guess is that the difference has to do with Turbo chipset (ADB) machines using 72hz instead of 68hz:

http://gip.channelu.com/NeXT/NeXTFAQ-html/NeXTFAQ.111.html

Obviously, some LCDs can handle either just fine, but some seem to have trouble with the 72hz.

Quote from: "pergamon"
My guess is that the difference has to do with Turbo chipset (ADB) machines using 72hz instead of 68hz:

Obviously, some LCDs can handle either just fine, but some seem to have trouble with the 72hz.

But he have used on both machines a Non-ADB soundbox. With non-adb hardware even a turbo-machine brings only 68Hz output.

Quote from: "pergamon"I've noticed the same thing with my Dell 2001FPs -- that non-Turbo Color Stations work fine, but that Turbo Color stations have display problems.  I've verified this with multiple machines and multiple 2001FPs, no matter what the settings and even after auto calibrations.

My guess is that the difference has to do with Turbo chipset (ADB) machines using 72hz instead of 68hz:

http://gip.channelu.com/NeXT/NeXTFAQ-html/NeXTFAQ.111.html

Obviously, some LCDs can handle either just fine, but some seem to have trouble with the 72hz.

Nice one Pergamon thanks for sharing :-) this explains why I had so much pain in these threads here (http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=307) and here (http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=89)

You could have jumped into my discussion on this subject a while back when this problem was driving my crazy and saved me the pain though :(, I though I alone was affected by this bloody problem.

My best guess at this was that running at 72hz in my case and on my Turbo Station that my Viewsonic VP-171b could not lock onto the combination of H & V resolutions at that refresh rate.  Seeing as most monitors are meant to display VESA, PC and Mac resolutions I'd figured that this combination was not in the ball park of what my monitor wanted to play with.  I even made a sync seperator in case it was a SOG (though the monitor supports SOG) issue to no avail, funny thing is that my Turbo Slab works fine with my Viewsonic DLP.  However the fact that in this case both slabs should be refreshing at 68hz makes this even more of a puzzle.

The natural scan rate of most TFT's seems to be 60hz, so maybe 68hz is close enough to work and 72hz far enough not to in the case of some LCD's.

My guess is that based on what we know know, is that Turbo Slabs output at 72hz regardless of what kind of soundbox is attached.

Can you guys update this thread here (http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=311) with the monitors you know to work or not work.

Cheers

According to my cornerstone p1600 crt, they are both outputting 69hz.  Depending on how the monitor does the rounding, that is basically a 68hz signal from both systems connected to a nonADB soundbox, as Andreas noted.  This leaves some kind if sync issue then being the reason then, right?  I ran it some more with the lcd, and sometimes the picture will be stable for 10 or so seconds, and then it will start blinking again when the screen content changes.  Other times the screen will not be changing (like the login screen) and the lcd will be blinking on and off every second or so.  Will try a couple of more brands/models of lcd I have around to see if any others behave differently.

At least others have reported the problem, so it is not just me.

On another note, this system boots differently than the others I have.  It goes directly into a graphical boot, not the verbose rom monitor screen that the color does.  Is this normal for a turbo?  If so, How does one interrupt the boot so I can get into single user mode to change the password?  The normal key combination does not seem to be working.

Chef

EDIT:
right command key was sticking and apparently not working correctly.  Worked it loose and got it working again.

Got the root password changed, so was able to get into the system.

It has 16Mb of ram, 406Mb disk, and is running NS 3.0.

It appears to have been last used in 1996, or at least that is when the last document appears to have been created.  It was being used by a prof at the Florida Institute of Technology, who was teaching digital circuit design and computer hardware design, and has a couple of programs related to circuit design and testing.  It also has FrameMaker v3.0.1, which was being used to write scientific papers and such.  Need to get a bigger hard drive for it, so I can install NS3.3 and related patches on it.  It also has two memory slots open, so will upgrade it to 32M as well.  Only a mono turbo and cube left, and then I will have an example of each, and I see a mono turbo on ebay atm.

Chef

Quote from: "nextchef"Only a mono turbo and cube left, and then I will have an example of each, and I see a mono turbo on ebay atm.

Chef

Add a NRW and a Nitro to your list ;-)

From the specs you give it looks like a genuine NeXT untouched and as it left the factory.

Quote from: "nextchef"Depending on how the monitor does the rounding, that is basically a 68hz signal from both systems connected to a nonADB soundbox, as Andreas noted.

I was shure for this because i has driven different NeXTs with my SGI 20E21 (Sony) wich shows the frequency.

QuoteOnly a mono turbo and cube left, and then I will have an example of each, and I see a mono turbo on ebay atm.

Chef

My english isn't good enough, are you refering to have from each NeXT manufactured NeXTcomputer one machine? You need at least <eg>:

25 MHz mono station old
25 MHz mono station turbo chipset
25 MHz color station old
25 MHz color station turbo chipset
33 MHz turbo mono station
33 MHz turbo color station
030 cube
040/25 cube
040/33 turbo cube

regards, Andreas

Quote from: "Andreas"

Quote from: "nextchef"Depending on how the monitor does the rounding, that is basically a 68hz signal from both systems connected to a nonADB soundbox, as Andreas noted.

I was shure for this because i has driven different NeXTs with my SGI 20E21 (Sony) wich shows the frequency.

QuoteOnly a mono turbo and cube left, and then I will have an example of each, and I see a mono turbo on ebay atm.

Chef

My english isn't good enough, are you refering to have from each NeXT manufactured NeXTcomputer one machine? You need at least <eg>:

25 MHz mono station old
25 MHz mono station turbo chipset
25 MHz color station old
25 MHz color station turbo chipset
33 MHz turbo mono station
33 MHz turbo color station
030 cube
040/25 cube
040/33 turbo cube

regards, Andreas

I was referring more in broad terms of the systems, not that specific, at least not yet ;)
My goal was to have one example of each type: cube, monostation, turbo monostation, colorstation, turbo colorstation.  I have 2 monostations, one colorstation, and one turbo colorstation currently.  How do you tell if the stations have the turbo chipset or not?

Chef

Quote from: "nextchef"How do you tell if the stations have the turbo chipset or not?

Chef

They have 4 PS/2 slots for 128MB RAM and the ADB-Soundbox type ROM but only a 25 MHz CPU (small heatsink instead the big one).

So did these systems come out before the 33mhz turbos as kind of an incremental step to add features?

Chef

Quote from: "nextchef"So did these systems come out before the 33mhz turbos as kind of an incremental step to add features?

Chef

No, these systems came out in the same time as the Turbos. Since NeXT haven't enough "old" machines they crippelt the Turbomachines with a slow CPU, the rest is the same than a turbo machine. It was cheaper as producing the old motherboard and the new one in the same time.

Quote from: "Andreas"

Quote from: "nextchef"So did these systems come out before the 33mhz turbos as kind of an incremental step to add features?

Chef

No, these systems came out in the same time as the Turbos. Since NeXT haven't enough "old" machines they crippelt the Turbomachines with a slow CPU, the rest is the same than a turbo machine. It was cheaper as producing the old motherboard and the new one in the same time.

So released together just to flesh out the options list a bit, and keep a "low power" or economy offering to the lineup.

Chef

Quote from: "nextchef"

Quote from: "Andreas"

Quote from: "nextchef"So did these systems come out before the 33mhz turbos as kind of an incremental step to add features?

Chef

No, these systems came out in the same time as the Turbos. Since NeXT haven't enough "old" machines they crippelt the Turbomachines with a slow CPU, the rest is the same than a turbo machine. It was cheaper as producing the old motherboard and the new one in the same time.

So released together just to flesh out the options list a bit, and keep a "low power" or economy offering to the lineup.

Chef

Something like that, yes.

The ADB/Turbo 25mhz stations are harder to find, but I am planning to sell a couple of the mono version if you're interested.

I'm not sure that a Color 25mhz Turbo ever existed.  It isn't mentioned in the NeXT FAQ, and I've never seen one, but that certainly doesn't mean they didn't exist.  Andreas, have you seen one or do you have documentation that one existed?

I suppose it is also possible that they made a 25mhz Turbo Cube board, but I've never heard of that either.  This one seems unlikely, though.

Quote from: "nextchef"According to my cornerstone p1600 crt, they are both outputting 69hz.  Depending on how the monitor does the rounding, that is basically a 68hz signal from both systems connected to a nonADB soundbox, as Andreas noted.  This leaves some kind if sync issue then being the reason then, right?  I ran it some more with the lcd, and sometimes the picture will be stable for 10 or so seconds, and then it will start blinking again when the screen content changes.  Other times the screen will not be changing (like the login screen) and the lcd will be blinking on and off every second or so.  Will try a couple of more brands/models of lcd I have around to see if any others behave differently.

Well, I sit corrected.  If it isn't a different scan rate, then I don't know what it might be.  I'll do some experimentation when I have time to see if I can pin it down.

Quote from: "pergamon"

Quote from: "nextchef"According to my cornerstone p1600 crt, they are both outputting 69hz.  Depending on how the monitor does the rounding, that is basically a 68hz signal from both systems connected to a nonADB soundbox, as Andreas noted.  This leaves some kind if sync issue then being the reason then, right?  I ran it some more with the lcd, and sometimes the picture will be stable for 10 or so seconds, and then it will start blinking again when the screen content changes.  Other times the screen will not be changing (like the login screen) and the lcd will be blinking on and off every second or so.  Will try a couple of more brands/models of lcd I have around to see if any others behave differently.

Well, I sit corrected.  If it isn't a different scan rate, then I don't know what it might be.  I'll do some experimentation when I have time to see if I can pin it down.

Nice theory though, wish it had panned out.

If I understand things that have been said, if I had an ADB soundbox, it would then output a 72hz signal to the monitor.  So does the non-ADB soundboard downconvert the 72hz signal from the turbo color, or is the slab "smart" enough to realise that it is connected to a non-ADB soundbox and change the signal it is sending?

More and more questions.

Chef

Quote from: "nextchef"

Quote from: "pergamon"

Quote from: "nextchef"According to my cornerstone p1600 crt, they are both outputting 69hz.  Depending on how the monitor does the rounding, that is basically a 68hz signal from both systems connected to a nonADB soundbox, as Andreas noted.  This leaves some kind if sync issue then being the reason then, right?  I ran it some more with the lcd, and sometimes the picture will be stable for 10 or so seconds, and then it will start blinking again when the screen content changes.  Other times the screen will not be changing (like the login screen) and the lcd will be blinking on and off every second or so.  Will try a couple of more brands/models of lcd I have around to see if any others behave differently.

Well, I sit corrected.  If it isn't a different scan rate, then I don't know what it might be.  I'll do some experimentation when I have time to see if I can pin it down.

Nice theory though, wish it had panned out.

If I understand things that have been said, if I had an ADB soundbox, it would then output a 72hz signal to the monitor.  So does the non-ADB soundboard downconvert the 72hz signal from the turbo color, or is the slab "smart" enough to realise that it is connected to a non-ADB soundbox and change the signal it is sending?

More and more questions.

Chef

The soundbox doesn't do anything with the video signal, so it must be on the station end.

Quote from: "pergamon"
I'm not sure that a Color 25mhz Turbo ever existed.  It isn't mentioned in the NeXT FAQ, and I've never seen one, but that certainly doesn't mean they didn't exist.  Andreas, have you seen one or do you have documentation that one existed?

I own one, so i know that it must be exist :-).
(Would be nice to see a Pyro color slab with 128MB RAM)

Quote from: "nextchef"
I was referring more in broad terms of the systems, not that specific, at least not yet ;)
My goal was to have one example of each type: cube, monostation, turbo monostation, colorstation, turbo colorstation.  I have 2 monostations, one colorstation, and one turbo colorstation currently.  How do you tell if the stations have the turbo chipset or not?

Chef

Just sniped a mono turbo off of ebay, so that is one more checked off the list :)
That is all the primary slabs, now need to save up for a cube.

Chef

Quote from: "nextchef"
Just sniped a mono turbo off of ebay, so that is one more checked off the list :)
That is all the primary slabs, now need to save up for a cube.

If the seller would ship to europe i had also tried to bid, but damn, only america.

Quote from: "nextchef"If I understand things that have been said, if I had an ADB soundbox, it would then output a 72hz signal to the monitor.  So does the non-ADB soundboard downconvert the 72hz signal from the turbo color, or is the slab "smart" enough to realise that it is connected to a non-ADB soundbox and change the signal it is sending?

More and more questions.

Chef

AFAIK connecting an ADB Soundbox to to a slab with an appropriate ROM and turbo chipset should make it output at 72hz, connecting a non ADB soundbox will then make it output at 68hz.  Dimensions output at 68hz regardless.

I once read that, if you have a non ADB Megapixel that you wanted to use with an ADB Slab that NeXT could tweak them for you, but in practise they work anyway, as mine does.

Quote from: "brams"
Can you guys update this thread here (http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=311) with the monitors you know to work or not work.

I've listed a link that can help with Sync On Green vs not (not so much NeXT vs non-NeXT compatible, but oh well...):
http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=799

Quote from: pergamon on November 14, 2006, 05:53:38 PMThe ADB/Turbo 25mhz stations are harder to find, but I am planning to sell a couple of the mono version if you're interested.

I just ran across a 25Mhz CPU in what appear to be a Turbo Mono motherboard (same part number) and confirmed that it can take 128mb of memory.

Quote from: gtnicol on June 24, 2023, 07:54:31 PMI just ran across a 25Mhz CPU in what appear to be a Turbo Mono motherboard (same part number) and confirmed that it can take 128mb of memory.

Yup!