Title: Market share of personal computer vendors Worldwide (1975–1995)
Post by: mikeboss on January 05, 2024, 01:18:01 PM
Post by: mikeboss on January 05, 2024, 01:18:01 PM
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_share_of_personal_computer_vendors#Worldwide_(1975–1995)
Title: Re: Market share of personal computer vendors Worldwide (1975–1995)
Post by: cuby on January 05, 2024, 04:57:42 PM
Post by: cuby on January 05, 2024, 04:57:42 PM
I'm a bit sceptical of some of the numbers – the Atari ST numbers seem low whereas the numbers for NeXTs sum up to 62k instead of the often cited number of 50k machines (but this might have been just a guesstimate?). But even with 62k machines sold worldwide, I'm happy to own 0.02% of NeXT's overall produced systems :) (I wonder how many machines Rob still has in storage?).
Especially the STs were extremely popular in Europe, that's why I was initially curious if the numbers were right.
This seems to be the original source for the numbers by Jeremy Reimer:
https://jeremyreimer.com/rockets-item.lsp?p=137 (https://jeremyreimer.com/rockets-item.lsp?p=137)
Here's a discussion on the Atari ST numbers:
https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=27819 (https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=27819)
According to numbers cited in that thread, sales of the ST in some European countries (500k France, 500k Spain, 650k UK, >650k Germany) amount to more than the 2.1 million units worldwide given in the table.
Of course, since this was Atari (and Commodore was not any better here), obtaining reliable numbers is extremely difficult.
Especially the STs were extremely popular in Europe, that's why I was initially curious if the numbers were right.
This seems to be the original source for the numbers by Jeremy Reimer:
https://jeremyreimer.com/rockets-item.lsp?p=137 (https://jeremyreimer.com/rockets-item.lsp?p=137)
Here's a discussion on the Atari ST numbers:
https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=27819 (https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=27819)
According to numbers cited in that thread, sales of the ST in some European countries (500k France, 500k Spain, 650k UK, >650k Germany) amount to more than the 2.1 million units worldwide given in the table.
Of course, since this was Atari (and Commodore was not any better here), obtaining reliable numbers is extremely difficult.
Title: Re: Market share of personal computer vendors Worldwide (1975–1995)
Post by: mikeboss on January 05, 2024, 07:29:10 PM
Post by: mikeboss on January 05, 2024, 07:29:10 PM
back in the late eighties, I knew a ton of guys who owned an Amiga. and, I kid you not, only a single one with an ST... this, of course, is no evidence for anything whatsoever. just anecdotal..
these are also interesting numbers (from a guy who should have known, I guess):
Wayback Machine (https://web.archive.org/web/20200725082811/http://www.amigahistory.plus.com/sales.html)
allegedly, commodore sold a total of 5,292,200 Amigas world-wide.
these are also interesting numbers (from a guy who should have known, I guess):
Wayback Machine (https://web.archive.org/web/20200725082811/http://www.amigahistory.plus.com/sales.html)
allegedly, commodore sold a total of 5,292,200 Amigas world-wide.
Title: Re: Market share of personal computer vendors Worldwide (1975–1995)
Post by: cuby on January 05, 2024, 08:16:53 PM
Post by: cuby on January 05, 2024, 08:16:53 PM
Here in Germany, the ST was everywhere.
We bought 16 Atari 1040STF for the computer lab in my high school in 1987 alone - some people wanted us to buy boring Schneider/Amstrad PC clones instead, but we students and the interested teachers fought together to buy STs instead. Good times (especially with networked MIDImaze sessions running networked over MIDI on all 16 STs! ;D).
I started my CS studies in 1990 with the 260ST I bought in high school and even created 100-page linear algebra lecture notes in LaTeX on that little 8 MHz machine with 512 kB RAM (and a Syquest 44MB drive, which was nice).
It was great to see that the university had Sun 3 servers, so I could run some of my 68k assembler code I wrote on the ST on a really fast machine. By luck, I got a used Sun 3/60 for little money (500 marks) in my second year of studies (and a lot of jealous new "friends"...).
I remember skipping one of my first maths lectures to attend the presentation of the NeXTstation by one of the German distributors (d'ART, I think) in late 1990, but the German price (~12500 marks IIRC) was way above what a student could afford. My rent for the student dorms back then was 172 marks per month...
We bought 16 Atari 1040STF for the computer lab in my high school in 1987 alone - some people wanted us to buy boring Schneider/Amstrad PC clones instead, but we students and the interested teachers fought together to buy STs instead. Good times (especially with networked MIDImaze sessions running networked over MIDI on all 16 STs! ;D).
I started my CS studies in 1990 with the 260ST I bought in high school and even created 100-page linear algebra lecture notes in LaTeX on that little 8 MHz machine with 512 kB RAM (and a Syquest 44MB drive, which was nice).
It was great to see that the university had Sun 3 servers, so I could run some of my 68k assembler code I wrote on the ST on a really fast machine. By luck, I got a used Sun 3/60 for little money (500 marks) in my second year of studies (and a lot of jealous new "friends"...).
I remember skipping one of my first maths lectures to attend the presentation of the NeXTstation by one of the German distributors (d'ART, I think) in late 1990, but the German price (~12500 marks IIRC) was way above what a student could afford. My rent for the student dorms back then was 172 marks per month...
Title: Re: Market share of personal computer vendors Worldwide (1975–1995)
Post by: pTeK on January 05, 2024, 10:45:28 PM
Post by: pTeK on January 05, 2024, 10:45:28 PM
I also think that the Atari ST/Amiga numbers are a bit off in the 80s as I would expect the Atari St to be shifting more units.
The cheaper Amiga 500 wasn't released until 1987 and I think it was 1988 when the Amiga 500 was dropped in price but it was the Amiga 500 software bundles in 1989? which would have sold a lot more Amigas.
My Family got our Amiga 500 on the way back from Australia in 1990.
Looking at UK computer magazines the price difference between the A500 and Atari ST was a couple hundred quid and when the price was similar between the two units the Atari St was bundled with a lot more software (10 software packages).
To be honest if it was 1985 I would have brought an Atari ST and would have jumped ship in 1987 once the Amiga 500 was released as the Mac was too expensive and don't get me going about the price of a NeXT machine back then especially with import taxes.
I think the problem with Atari ST sales was that Tramiel had made a lot of enemies with Commodore so they were not going to sell the Atari ST.
Atari should have hired a lot more uni engineering students in the Bay area (UC Berkley, UC Stanford) and tried to get them to port and create engineering/science applications to the Atari ST.
The cheaper Amiga 500 wasn't released until 1987 and I think it was 1988 when the Amiga 500 was dropped in price but it was the Amiga 500 software bundles in 1989? which would have sold a lot more Amigas.
My Family got our Amiga 500 on the way back from Australia in 1990.
Looking at UK computer magazines the price difference between the A500 and Atari ST was a couple hundred quid and when the price was similar between the two units the Atari St was bundled with a lot more software (10 software packages).
To be honest if it was 1985 I would have brought an Atari ST and would have jumped ship in 1987 once the Amiga 500 was released as the Mac was too expensive and don't get me going about the price of a NeXT machine back then especially with import taxes.
I think the problem with Atari ST sales was that Tramiel had made a lot of enemies with Commodore so they were not going to sell the Atari ST.
Atari should have hired a lot more uni engineering students in the Bay area (UC Berkley, UC Stanford) and tried to get them to port and create engineering/science applications to the Atari ST.