About NextStep/OpenStep on Laptops

Hello Forum,

This is my very first post. I've been reading some posts here + then doing some googling i see that many of you run NS on ugly/cheap laptops (no pun intended)

So I was wondering what seems to be working (out of the box?) so far?

I see a user reporting here (http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=45) that a Toshiba Tecra 8000 is almost OK

Also, Apple's OPENSTEP Driver Compatibility Guide (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=70027) lists some laptops (mainly ThinkPads). Are these ready to rock? Can I just grab a ThinkPad 760ED and dress it with OpenStep?

Any other members here running NS/OS on laptops?

Finally what's the big deal with compatible Ethernet PCMCIA, only these 2 from 3Com are compatible?

sorry for bombing you with questions, but i guess all newbies need a starting point  :?

The Thinkpad 760 is awesome, it works pretty well out of the chute.  Sound and video both work perfectly, from what I recall.  I think I still have a collection of drivers for this laptop..



I would recommend a 3c589D, but I think any NE2K-Compatible card works, if it's a half-way reputable venfor.

Kensington cards should also work well.

The Thinkpad 600 series works also, I think..  I can't remember if I ran it on mine or not..

The Compaq Armada M300 should work.  ATI video, Intel chipset, built-in Etherpro 100 NIC, SB-compatible sound..  I have not managed to install it, due to my lack of a floppy drive..

Quote from: "soup"Are these ready to rock? Can I just grab a ThinkPad 760ED and dress it woth OpenStep?

Any other members here running NS/OS on laptops?

Finally what's the big deal with compatible Ethernet PCMCIA, only these 2 from 3Com are compatible?

I run OPENSTEP 4.2 on my ThinkPad 760ED (though a lot less often now that I have OS 4.3 on a SPARCstation 10, the ThinkPad is mainly for Rhapsody these days).

If you don't already have a 760ED on hand... honestly, it isn't the system I'd recommend. The sound in some older ThinkPads isn't supported (including the 760ED).

Now, if I was buying a ThinkPad today for running OPENSTEP (or Rhapsody) I'd get the ThinkPad 765L. Why? It has a 13.3" display at 1024x768 (the 760ED only has a 12.1" display), it has a compatible sound chipset (the 760ED doesn't) and it uses a Pentium at 166 MHz (the 760ED runs at 133 MHz).

My list of ThinkPads compatible with Rhapsody on this page (http://www.rhapsodyos.org/hardware/laptops/the_list_1.html) brakes down the compatible models and which are supported for sound... this list is just as good for OPENSTEP.

As for the 3Com Ethernet cards, I outlined (on this page (http://www.rhapsodyos.org/hardware/etherlink/etherlink_1.html)) using the expert mode to cover a wider range of 3Com cards than the included drivers do. And again, this page maybe for Rhapsody but works for OPENSTEP too (using the OPENSTEP version of the driver). You'll find that a lot of the things you need for setting up systems are the same between Rhapsody, OPENSTEP and NEXTSTEP.

As for why there aren't more drivers for more PCMCIA cards in general... NEXTSTEP, OPENSTEP and Rhapsody were all considered Enterprise software. As such NeXT/Apple never put much emphasis into making additional drivers for using them with laptops. Unlike the Windows world (where hardware makers make drivers for Windows), NeXT/Apple was forced to make drivers for third party hardware for NS/OS/Rhapsody.

itomato+RacerX: thanks for the feedback

Quote from: "itomato"The Thinkpad 760 is awesome, it works pretty well out of the chute.  Sound and video both work perfectly, from what I recall.  I think I still have a collection of drivers for this laptop..

Quote from: "RacerX"If you don't already have a 760ED on hand... honestly, it isn't the system I'd recommend. The sound in some older ThinkPads isn't supported (including the 760ED).

hmm since your opininons contradict on the 760ED, could someone confirm if sound is OK or not?

Quote from: "RacerX"If you don't already have a 760ED on hand... honestly, it isn't the system I'd recommend. The sound in some older ThinkPads isn't supported (including the 760ED).

no i don't own any ThinkPad(s), i'm thinking of buying one to give OpenStep a go...

i'm gonna go through your list (btw: sweet work 8))

I think I had a 760CD.

I know it had a 12" screen, but it was 1024x768.  I prefer the higher pixel density.

I don't know if it was the Mwave modem/sound combo or if it had a separate CS18XX or CS16XX chip..

Either way, I think it's safe to say that the Mwave-equipped models do not have supported sound.

Check out the Armada M300 or the Thinkpad 600 series.  Newer, faster, easier to get RAM for, and supported by "modern" drivers.

Quote from: "soup"hmm since your opininons contradict on the 760ED, could someone confirm if sound is OK or not?

I have never had sound on my 760ED (either of them, as my first one was stolen). I've run NEXTSTEP 3.3, OPENSTEP 4.1, 4.2 and Rhapsody 5.1 (only on the second system) on the 760ED without any success in the area of sound.

Of the ten 760 ThinkPad models, only half use supported sound hardware. All are supported for video though. None if the later patches for NS/OS solved the issues, nor did any of the drivers I've tried.  :?

Would OpenStep run on a Thinkpad 770E?  I do not see it mentioned on any of the lists,

   * Intel Mobile Pentium II 266 CPU
   * Trident Cyber9397 with 4MB
   * 14.1" TFT display with 1024x768 resolution
   * 160MB PC-66 memory
   * 5.1GB HDD
   * CS4237B Audio controller
   * IrDA 1.1
   * UltraBay II with 1.44MB FDD
   * (2) Type II CardBus slots or (1) type III


It has a CD/DVD in the bay, and an external floppy disk as well.

Chef

Hallo,
I have a Thinkpad 560 X with a Panasonic SCSI CDROM via PCMCIA SCSI card.
The problem are the driver, How i can read the CD? is possible?

TNX

Quote from: "RacerX"
I run OPENSTEP 4.2 on my ThinkPad 760ED (though a lot less often now that I have OS 4.3 on a SPARCstation 10, the ThinkPad is mainly for Rhapsody these days).

I simply must know where you bought OS 4.3.

Eric

yeah, I'm curious too.

Will NS/OS work on a Thinkpad 390E?  According to the web, the video driver used is a NeoMagic MagicMedia 256AV (NM2200) 2.5M, and the audio is an ESS Solo 1 (ES1946).  I see no mention of NeoMagic on RacerX or Apples site, so I have my doubts.  ESS is mentioned, but only as high as the ES1888, so not sure about this either.

Thanks,

Chef

Sorry about not having finished my NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP laptop page :( ... there is so much more to sort out with NS/OS drivers than there was with Rhapsody drivers, which makes the task many times more difficult. :shock:

On the specific question raised about Neomagic video drivers, the MagicGraph128ZV and MagicMedia256AV are supported in OPENSTEP 4.2 with Patch 4 applied. And there are supposed to be Neomagic video drivers for NEXTSTEP 3.3 here (http://next.68k.org/otto/html/pub/3rd_party_drivers/nextstep/3.3/i386/video/), but I haven't had the chance to look into what versions of Neomagic hardware that covers.

Quote from: "RacerX"Sorry about not having finished my NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP laptop page :( ... there is so much more to sort out with NS/OS drivers than there was with Rhapsody drivers, which makes the task many times more difficult. :shock:

Not a problem, as the Rhapsody page and other links have given me an idea where to look for info.  Damn shame when life gets in the way of "fun".  :cry:
Is there a way that myself and others here can help you with this?

Quote from: "RacerX"On the specific question raised about Neomagic video drivers, the MagicGraph128ZV and MagicMedia256AV are supported in OPENSTEP 4.2 with Patch 4 applied. And there are supposed to be Neomagic video drivers for NEXTSTEP 3.3 here (http://next.68k.org/otto/html/pub/3rd_party_drivers/nextstep/3.3/i386/video/), but I haven't had the chance to look into what versions of Neomagic hardware that covers.

Is the Patch4 revised hardware list on Apple.com somewhere?  I found the page for the patch and its release note, but I did not see any mention of updated hardware support.  A lot of the links no longer work, but I was able to pull some of them up by modifying the artnum query being used in the address bar.  I guess as long as you have patch2 or later installed, any VESA 2.0 compatible card should work.  Link below for those interested.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=70026

If I can find all the pieces and AC adapter for my 390E, I will try it out and see.  I just wanted to make sure if someone else had tried and failed before I go digging.  I have an Dell INSPIRION 7000 that I think I will try first, as it looks to be more compatible (and I know where all the bits are to it :)).

Thanks for the info,

Chef

Chef:
The AC adapter that came with my 390E garage laptop is a 3COM power supply model SC-100.  The number on the front under the 3COM logo is: 1.015.1359-00
James

Quote from: "nextchef"Is there a way that myself and others here can help you with this?

Mainly by either pointing out where to find different NS/OS drivers or sites with older laptop specifications. That plus confirmations of NS/OS running on different laptops are always quite helpful.

The main limitation of my site has been paying for space/bandwidth, but I should have enough space to start hosting apps, drivers, etc. rather than just linking and hoping that addresses don't change.


Besides, I do have other hobbies beyond computers... but I got most of those finished and online recently, so I can return to this and continue with the sorting. Still, while I love all this stuff, I enjoy actually using it for things more than just looking at it. I can only handle so much computers for computers sake at a time for needing a break. ;)