Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware

NeXT Computer, Inc. -> NeXT Black Hardware

Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: da9000 on March 28, 2007, 11:49:33 PM
Anyone have a list of the differences?

Thanks
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: da9000 on April 02, 2007, 07:55:25 PM
I guess NeXT never published the changes on the firmware revisions?
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: Andreas on April 05, 2007, 12:08:19 PM
Quote from: "da9000"I guess NeXT never published the changes on the firmware revisions?

Looks like so. It would be cool to found a history. And to add a question: in the german mag NeXT2You i have read something about Beta ROMs higher than v74. I assume no one have one?
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: emond on April 12, 2007, 03:20:54 PM
After some search on the Web and in my slab and Cubes :

EPROM - DATE - Type of computer - Frequency
0.8.30 1988 Cube 68030 25Mhz
0.8.31 1989 Cube 68030 25Mhz
1 1989 Cube 68030 25Mhz
1.1 1989
1.2 1989
2.1 1991
2.2 1991
2.4 v65
2.5 v66 Cube 68040 25MHz
3.0 v70 Station Turbo Color
3.3 v74 Station Turbo Color

I would like to have a copy of a recent EPROM ;)

My most recent is 2.5 v66... And, It appears that with possible to boot on CDROM (with NeXT Cube) with 3.x EPROM version...
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: Andreas on April 12, 2007, 03:39:04 PM
Quote from: "emond"After some search on the Web and in my slab and Cubes :

EPROM - DATE - Type of computer - Frequency
0.8.30 1988 Cube 68030 25Mhz
0.8.31 1989 Cube 68030 25Mhz
1 1989 Cube 68030 25Mhz
1.1 1989
1.2 1989
2.1 1991
2.2 1991
2.4 v65
2.5 v66 Cube 68040 25MHz
3.0 v70 Station Turbo Color
3.3 v74 Station Turbo Color

I can add from one of my NeXTs
3.1 v71 1992 Turbo ROM

But the question was about a history/changes

Quote
I would like to have a copy of a recent EPROM ;)

My most recent is 2.5 v66...

This is the most recent for non-Turbo chipsets.

QuoteAnd, It appears that with possible to boot on CDROM (with NeXT Cube) with 3.x EPROM version...

If you have a Turbo board in your cube you can use the v74, with the "normal" board the v66
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: emond on April 12, 2007, 04:16:30 PM
OK,  you guarantee that the 3.x version EPROM do not working on 68040 25Mhz ?

Too bad, I have 1 slab 68040 and 3 cube's (1x 68030 25Mhz and 2x 68040 25Mhz) not Turbo Cube 68040 33Mhz :(
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: Andreas on April 12, 2007, 04:26:22 PM
Quote from: "emond"OK,  you guarantee that the 3.x version EPROM do not working on 68040 25Mhz ?

No, i have never tested it by myself so i can't "guarantee" anything.
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: emond on April 12, 2007, 04:40:34 PM
Can you make a copy of the EPROM ?
Send me the bin file, and I recopy it my side to a new EPROM to make the test ?
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: da9000 on April 12, 2007, 04:42:48 PM
@Emond:

Thank you for posting the list and your web research. Even though we don't know the changes between the various ROMs, it's good to have a list of the versions someplace.

One small addition: my 2.4/v65 is from 1991 and a 25Mhz (nonTurbo) Cube:
http://picasaweb.google.com/adonisoamigas/MyBlackBeautyMyPrecious/photo#5039088087633274242


Quote from: "Andreas"
I can add from one of my NeXTs
3.1 v71 1992 Turbo ROM

Andreas, is that a Mono-TurboStation or Color-TurboStation?


And a couple of questions, which I have a feeling Andreas is best suited to answer:

1) Is there a program that will allow us to dump the (binary) ROM contents to a file?

2) What's the size of the ROM contents (not the EEPROM chip): 256KB, 512KB, more?

Thanks guys

EDIT: heh, I just noticed Emond also asking for making a copy/dump of the ROM contents :)
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: emond on April 12, 2007, 04:54:15 PM
Me, to read/write Eprom (or other) I use Conitec Galep III, it is a universal programmer made in Germany ;)

http://www.conitec.com/hardware/epages/galep3.htm

The NeXT EPROM it's 64KB - TMS 27C512 (in 28 DIP package) for old revision (68030) but 128KB - TMS 27c010 (in DIP 32) in last revision from the 68040...
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: da9000 on April 12, 2007, 05:25:18 PM
Quote from: "emond"Me, to read/write Eprom (or other) I use Conitec Galep III, it is a universal programmer made in Germany ;)

http://www.conitec.com/hardware/epages/galep3.htm

The NeXT EPROM it's 64KB - TMS 27C512 (in 28 DIP package) for old revision (68030) but 128KB - TMS 27c010 (in DIP 32) in last revision from the 68040...

Hi Emond, I'm looking for a software program to dump the contents of the ROM (as I don't have an *PROM reader/writer).

As for the size, 64KB and 128KB... Not bad. I guess disassemly is do-able at some point. Now if we could only find the changelogs...
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: da9000 on April 22, 2007, 09:52:24 PM
So nobody knows of any tools to dump the ROM contents? If you do, please tell us :)

Now, irregardless of that, I believe I've found a source for this information. I'm going to work on getting it. I'm not sure what documents and what they contain exactly, but I was told that they have details about the ROM revisions. Keeping fingers crossed...
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: Andreas on April 23, 2007, 11:30:49 AM
Quote from: "da9000"So nobody knows of any tools to dump the ROM contents? If you do, please tell us :)

No clue how to dump. I'm using also the way to remove the ROM and place it in a bunrner to read the content or burn a new one.
BTW, i have also succesfully used the 29xxx-types, they are erasable in burners instead the 27xxx types with light
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: Andreas on April 23, 2007, 11:33:23 AM
Quote from: "da9000"
Andreas, is that a Mono-TurboStation or Color-TurboStation?

You can exchange the ROMs in every machine, the only restrictions i know are: the v66 and lower are for non-Turbo chipsets and the v71-4 are for Turbos.
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: da9000 on April 23, 2007, 02:38:06 PM
I gotcha, Andreas. When I have some time I'll ask you to place the binary file someplace for I can look inside of it.

In the mean time, I'm wondering: does the ROM get mapped to a certain address range in the computer's memory space? In most computers it does. For example, on IBM PCs the ROM ("BIOS") gets mapped to 0xF0000-0xFFFFF if my memory serves right. On the Amiga it's mapped to 0xF00000-0xFFFFFF.
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: mgtremaine on April 23, 2007, 08:36:49 PM
Quote from: "da9000"I gotcha, Andreas. When I have some time I'll ask you to place the binary file someplace for I can look inside of it.

In the mean time, I'm wondering: does the ROM get mapped to a certain address range in the computer's memory space? In most computers it does. For example, on IBM PCs the ROM ("BIOS") gets mapped to 0xF0000-0xFFFFF if my memory serves right. On the Amiga it's mapped to 0xF00000-0xFFFFFF.

I suspect it must and since NS/OS gives you a /dev/mem you should be able to use dd to dump the area of memory once you find it.  [You can find lots of exmaples of using dd on /dev/mem from google]

-Mike
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: da9000 on April 23, 2007, 08:48:39 PM
Quote from: "mgtremaine"
I suspect it must and since NS/OS gives you a /dev/mem you should be able to use dd to dump the area of memory once you find it.  [You can find lots of exmaples of using dd on /dev/mem from google]
-Mike

It would be very easy indeed (I'm familiar with dd, only need to find out the starting/ending location of the ROM) if indeed it was mapped in the RAM address space. As far as I know that is what /dev/mem points to. So /dev/map will allow legal access to memory from the 0th byte to RAM_SIZE byte, but not beyond that, and typically ROMs are placed at the end of the machine addressable space, or not contiguously with the RAM.

It's also possible that it's not mapped to the normal address space, but is accessed somehow else (port I/O for example). Unlikely, but possibly. I'm still learning about the NeXT architecture. I'll poke around more when I have some more time. For now I'm trying to collect as much useful info as possible :)
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: mgtremaine on April 24, 2007, 10:34:40 AM
Quote from: "da9000"
It would be very easy indeed (I'm familiar with dd, only need to find out the starting/ending location of the ROM) if indeed it was mapped in the RAM address space. As far as I know that is what /dev/mem points to. So /dev/map will allow legal access to memory from the 0th byte to RAM_SIZE byte, but not beyond that, and typically ROMs are placed at the end of the machine addressable space, or not contiguously with the RAM.

It's also possible that it's not mapped to the normal address space, but is accessed somehow else (port I/O for example). Unlikely, but possibly. I'm still learning about the NeXT architecture. I'll poke around more when I have some more time. For now I'm trying to collect as much useful info as possible :)

The nekochan the community had/has a dumping project for all the SGI ROM's [ofcourse the SGI PROM has a dump/fill command so it is easy] but if you want to see a examples of byte swapping/endianess and using strings to read out some of the text in the ROM searching their boards might help.

I diffenetly think we should be able to get the ROM out somehow, next time I boot up my nextstation I'll poke around as well.

-Mike
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: da9000 on April 24, 2007, 12:34:41 PM
I'll keep it in mind and take a look at their forums when I start poking around. Thanks Mike.
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: mgtremaine on April 24, 2007, 03:29:33 PM
Since I can't resist fiddling  :lol:

On my turbo color slab  

dd if=/dev/mem of=test.bin bs=512

produced

-rw-r--r--  1 root      131072 Apr 24 13:17 test.bin

And when you strings test.bin

you see some lovely stuff like

NeXT ROM monitor commands:
p  inspect/modify configuration parameters
a [n]  open address register
m  print memory configuration
d [n]  open data register
r [regname]  open processor register
s [systemreg]  open system register
e [lwb] [alist] [format]  examine memory location addr
ec  print recorded system error codes
ej [drive #]  eject optical disk (default = 0)
eo  (same as above)
ef [drive #]  eject floppy disk (default = 0)
c  continue execution at last pc location
b [device[(ctrl,unit,part)] [filename] [flags]]  boot from device
S [fcode]  open function code (address space)
R [radix]  set input radix
Notes:


So I'd say it is there and /dev/mem , and it might just be only the ROM,  they are 128K ROM chips right?

-Mike
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: da9000 on April 24, 2007, 04:05:53 PM
Woa, that's strange indeed! Yes, from what you're getting it seems that's the one, and as the others pointed out they're either 64KB or 128KB chips! I was basing my assumption on other Unixes, such as Linux, which use /dev/mem to point to the RAM address space. Strange indeed. Always a good time to learn! I'll try to find some time to fiddle around with it too :)
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: Andreas on April 24, 2007, 04:05:53 PM
Quote from: "mgtremaine"
So I'd say it is there and /dev/mem , and it might just be only the ROM,  they are 128K ROM chips right?

You are right. you can compare it with this:
http://freenet-homepage.de/a_berger/images/rom/next_v74.bin
http://freenet-homepage.de/a_berger/images/rom/next_v66.bin

You should also read this thread for the differences in the beginning of the ROM (MAC Adresse and CRC-sum)
http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: da9000 on April 25, 2007, 02:10:12 PM
Quote from: "Andreas"
You should also read this thread for the differences in the beginning of the ROM (MAC Adresse and CRC-sum)
http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11

Thank you Andreas, I had not seen that thread in the forums.
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: mgtremaine on April 25, 2007, 07:46:17 PM
Quote from: "Andreas"
You are right. you can compare it with this:
http://freenet-homepage.de/a_berger/images/rom/next_v74.bin

Pretty much the same. I did a diff -a nextrom_v74.bin next_v74.bin and there is only 1 line that comes back as different [Probably the mac address]. I can post my ROM if it would help anyone.

-Mike
Title: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: Andreas on April 26, 2007, 03:53:24 AM
Quote from: "mgtremaine"
Pretty much the same. I did a diff -a nextrom_v74.bin next_v74.bin and there is only 1 line that comes back as different [Probably the mac address]. I can post my ROM if it would help anyone.

http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11
Title: Re: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: vtgearhead on August 03, 2025, 11:47:39 AM
I received a mono NextStation (non-turbo) with ROM 3.1 v71.  Everything I see online about this version suggests it's strictly for the turbo models, but my system seems to be running properly.  Comments?
Title: Re: Changelog of different firmware/ROMs for black hardware
Post by: barcher174 on August 03, 2025, 08:33:10 PM
If you have 72pin simm ram you have a down-clocked turbo motherboard. 

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