Hi,
After about 6 months of searching I finally got myself a copy of NeXTSTEP 3.3 from eBay. I don't have any black hardware (yet!), so I've been trying to install it onto two old Dells that I own. But I'm having problems...
Here are the specs for the Dells -
Dell Optiplex (refurbished - not by me) -
MAXTOR 2B010H1 Hd
SAMSUNG CD-ROM SN-124
Floppy Drive
Dell Dimension 4100 -
MAXTOR 5T040H4 Hd
SAMSUNG DVD-ROM SD-612
SONY CD-RW CRX140E
SCSIVAX DVD/CD-ROM SCSI CDROM
Floppy Drive
I've got all the 3.3 drivers from the Apple site, and I've been following the instructions given here (
http://www.shawcomputing.net/resources/next/software/install/ns_install.html).
This is the problem I repeatedly run into, however -
...
hd0: Maxtor 2B010H1 WAK21R90
hd0: 16383 cylinders, 16 heads, 63 spt (disk geometry)
hd0: using multisector (16) transfers
Registering: hd0
Registering: hd0a
hd0: No Valid Disk Label
hd0: Device Block Size: 512 bytes
hd0: Device Capacity: 3967 MB
Registering: event0
Registering: KmDevice0
No SCSI controller or CD-ROM drive found
use sd%d, hd%d, fd%d, en%d or tr%dThat's from the Optiplex, but the Dimension leads to the same problem.
Choosing any option from the last line just gives me kernel panic. I'd be really grateful if someone could give me some advice on what to do, as I'm eager to get this amazing OS up and running ASAP.
Cheers guys,
Chris
yeah i get this same errors on my system to.....i have tried all different drivers etc...and still nothing...im lost
anyone have any advice?
Have you tried the custom driver floppies that are floating around? I don't know if you get them from apples site or what but they have a bunch of drivers that arent on the normal 3.3 install floppies.
i have the beta and core drivers disk
Quote from: "Sea_of_Cortez"
No SCSI controller or CD-ROM drive found
use sd%d, hd%d, fd%d, en%d or tr%d
It seems it's not finding your CDROM device. You have to use some trickery because of a bug in the installer:
Initially choose the Adaptec 154x driver. Then choose the "EIDE and ATAPI" driver. Make sure both are on the primary interface as master (hdd) and slave (cdrom).
Of course this won't guarantee it will work. NS is picky...
Quote from: "MacG4"i have the beta and core drivers disk
Is there a doc that describes what are the differences? I'm not sure what the "core drivers" disk has that differs from the "drivers disk" :?
Quote from: "da9000"Quote from: "Sea_of_Cortez"
No SCSI controller or CD-ROM drive found
use sd%d, hd%d, fd%d, en%d or tr%d
It seems it's not finding your CDROM device. You have to use some trickery because of a bug in the installer:
Initially choose the Adaptec 154x driver. Then choose the "EIDE and ATAPI" driver. Make sure both are on the primary interface as master (hdd) and slave (cdrom).
Of course this won't guarantee it will work. NS is picky...
have done this about million times and always got the same result
Quote from: "MacG4"Quote from: "da9000"Quote from: "Sea_of_Cortez"
No SCSI controller or CD-ROM drive found
use sd%d, hd%d, fd%d, en%d or tr%d
It seems it's not finding your CDROM device. You have to use some trickery because of a bug in the installer:
Initially choose the Adaptec 154x driver. Then choose the "EIDE and ATAPI" driver. Make sure both are on the primary interface as master (hdd) and slave (cdrom).
Of course this won't guarantee it will work. NS is picky...
have done this about million times and always got the same result
...yes, me too... But worth another go...
Thanks, BTW, da9000...
I have a floppy image for 3.3_Addl_Drivers ('additional drivers', I presume), so I'll try that (I think that image is actually on the Apple site). If I get no success I'll try it in Qemu (or even VMware player? Is that possible?). If still no success then I'm just going to have to build my own machine. And if THAT doesn't work I'm finally going to have to get myself some Black hardware... from somewhere!
Quote from: "Sea_of_Cortez"
...yes, me too... But worth another go...
Thanks, BTW, da9000...
I have a floppy image for 3.3_Addl_Drivers ('additional drivers', I presume), so I'll try that (I think that image is actually on the Apple site).
Yeah, NS is very picky. I've had it work (on a Pentium Pro machine and P2 with BX chipset) and I've also had it not work.
Another thing you can try is the Beta drivers. So, pick the Adaptec AHA154x driver first, but then don't use the Additional Drivers floppy, but the Beta Drivers floppy and in there the very last driver is called something like "Primary and Secondary bla bla IDE bla bla". That allowed me to boot with the CD-ROM on the secondary channel and master or slave, I don't recall right now.
Quote from: "Sea_of_Cortez"
If I get no success I'll try it in Qemu (or even VMware player? Is that possible?). If still no success then I'm just going to have to build my own machine.
I've heard others having success with those, so search the forums to see the various experiences.
Quote from: "Sea_of_Cortez"
And if THAT doesn't work I'm finally going to have to get myself some Black hardware... from somewhere!
That method wilL DEFINITELY work :D
alright will have to try it out myself. ns is way to picky
Quote from: "Sea_of_Cortez"If I get no success I'll try it in Qemu (or even VMware player? Is that possible?). If still no success then I'm just going to have to build my own machine. And if THAT doesn't work I'm finally going to have to get myself some Black hardware... from somewhere!
Black hardware is always best :D , but I have successfully run OS4.2 in Vmware workstation 5.5. It can be quite a chore, especially trying to get the drivers installed with the messed up mouse you get by default. I have never tried NS3.3 in VMware, so I do not know if there will be any difference in how it is installed.
Chef
Wish itomato would chime in. He was 'da man as far as I could tell
Well, I've given up trying to install 3.3 on any of my Intel machines, but I
have managed to install it on VMWare Workstation 5.5 (WinXP version). The mouse is lousy, though (it's a USB mouse). Does anyone know if any patches are available?
Update: found one here (
http://kordtokrax.de/nsinvm/how-to.html#Mausproblemloesung).
Pleased to report that after deciding to have one last go at it I managed to install 3.3 to my Dell Optiplex! :D :D :D This time I made a new partition of 2GB, and I think it was that that did the trick. Very pleased with it, but I'd like to change the display driver from the default VGA. The computer has an Intel 82810 card - is there a driver for that?
There's no driver for the i810 specifically, but there is a VESA driver, which will work, if somewhat slowly. (all drawing operations are handled by the CPU with VESA, but it works!).
Also, if you have NS 3.3 RISC, you can run it on HP and Sun hardware too, which is easier to find these days than black, and almost as trouble-free (on an SS5/TCX or an HP 712).
Thanks, kronoman. Any idea where I can get hold of that? I don't see any VESA drivers listed in either the nextcomputers.org archives or on the Apple site.
I used this (
http://www.atomicobject.com/pages/VMWare+Display+Driver) SVGA driver while running NS 3.3 under VMWare workstation. Wonder if it would work on an actual machine?
UPDATE: tried the VMWare driver, and it did absolutely nothing.
I've read that there was a VESA driver included with the Openstep 4.2 Y2K patch - might that work with NS 3.3?
Ack, yeah, that's the VESA driver I was thinking of... Hm. I assumed that the latest NeXTSTEP 3.3 patch would include it as well. Perhaps not :(
Well I've installed NS patch3 (latest) from the Apple site and it doesn't appear to include that driver (though there's nothing in the Openstep 4.2 patch documentation mentioning a vesa driver).
I do also own an Openstep User CD, so I'll have a go at installing that to my other Intel box. I couldn't install it to VMWare Workstation, so perhaps the disc isn't functional anymore; I'll give it a go, anyway, as my persistence with NS eventually paid off. Thanks for your help.
If you're looking for a card that NS 3.3 will like, you might find a Matrox Millennium G100/200/400/450 on eBay quite inexpensively. Also, some early ATi Mach64/Rage cards should work.
Thanks for the tip, I'll check those out.
UPDATE: Just purchased a Matrox Millenium G200 from eBay! :D Only £4.99 (approx. 8 Euros).
What size were you trying before? (for the partition)
I wasn't partitioning before, I was just attempting to install straight onto a 10GB hard disk. I did also install a Bus Logic SCSI driver with the successful install, however, so maybe it was that that fixed it rather than making a new partition - though I think I read somewhere that NeXTSTEP likes a 2-4GB partition (OpenStep is even pickier?).
I've just received my Matrox Millenium card, so I'm going to set it up and see if I can get some decent screen resolution (and colour) now.
Quote from: "Sea_of_Cortez"I wasn't partitioning before, I was just attempting to install straight onto a 10GB hard disk. I did also install a Bus Logic SCSI driver with the successful install
Sorry, I meant the question for MacG4 and the others trying to install NS on white hardware. Perhaps the partition size was causing them problems?
It would seem likely. I can't remember where I read about it (possibly somewhere on these boards?), but I'm pretty sure that OpenStep won't tolerate anything above 2GB - which seems ridiculously small by today's standards, but there you go. I initially tried a 6GB partition which NS didn't like (kernel panic), and only tried 2GB out of sheer desperation. It did the trick, though.
I should add that I didn't use the drivers from Apple's archive, but ones customized for installing OpenStep to VMWare Workstation under Linux. Unfortunately the site I obtained them from no longer seems to be available, but here's the url anyway -
http://julliard.homeip.net/~laurent/GNUstep/OS42_Install.htmlUpdate: Just remembered this (
http://kordtokrax.de/nsinvm/how-to.html//url) site. It gives instructions for installing NS to VMWare Workstation, and unfortunately my German's a bit rusty, but at figure 10 it clearly states that NS has problems with partitions bigger than 4GB -
'Bei größeren GB-Werten (ich glaube ab 4 etwa) hat Nextstep Schwierigkeiten.'
trans:
'At larger GB values (I believe starting from about 4) Nextstep has difficulties.'
Yes, I was aware of the partition limit, so that's why I'm wondering what the other folks have been trying to use as a partition size, because perhaps that's the cause of their problems.
Good tip though, about the drivers, and the links, especially the German one. The other is unfortunately dead, but perhaps in the archive.org