Title: NEXTSTEP Virtual PC Installation
Post by: dialt on January 22, 2006, 01:44:42 PM
Post by: dialt on January 22, 2006, 01:44:42 PM
I saw a link someone posted for installing NEXTSTEP 3.3 on Virtual PC, and I am currently attempting this on version 5.3 of Microsoft Virtual PC. I ran into some snags (different from the stated installation instructions) so if anyone's interested, I will be more than willing to share my experiences in a HOWTO (although I won't bother if people AREN'T, so if you ARE you can respond personally or on this board.)
Hopefully it will work-- it's a good compromise if, like me, you have to get rid of actual hardware to save space but still want to use NEXTSTEP.
Thanks.
Tom
Hopefully it will work-- it's a good compromise if, like me, you have to get rid of actual hardware to save space but still want to use NEXTSTEP.
Thanks.
Tom
Title: NEXTSTEP Virtual PC Installation
Post by: Nightengale on January 22, 2006, 07:10:06 PM
Post by: Nightengale on January 22, 2006, 07:10:06 PM
Tom,
I for one would most certainly be interested in how it goes, what you did to make it work, or any other tips and things to make it work. Thanks for this.
Don
I for one would most certainly be interested in how it goes, what you did to make it work, or any other tips and things to make it work. Thanks for this.
Don
Title: NEXTSTEP Virtual PC Installation
Post by: NeXT³ on January 22, 2006, 07:46:57 PM
Post by: NeXT³ on January 22, 2006, 07:46:57 PM
Hi Tom,
We would be more than happy to host your Howto here and to follow along as you get things running.
Thanks,
We would be more than happy to host your Howto here and to follow along as you get things running.
Thanks,
Title: Update
Post by: dialt on January 27, 2006, 01:39:11 AM
Post by: dialt on January 27, 2006, 01:39:11 AM
I got NEXTSTEP up and running on my Virtual PC 2004. I followed the instructions posted by someone else (see other links on this forum), but some changes were necessary. Here are some screenshots:
http://users.adelphia.net/~dialtr/next.html
I have not had time to post a detailed HOWTO at this point, but I will get to it soon. I want to wait until I understand how to get the networking stuff up. I understand it is possible.
I did manage to get 1028x768 true color video, sound blaster sound, etc,.
Some caveats that I'll mention for now:
1. You must create a fixed-size empty disk image for NEXTSTEP, and you should probably make it around 2 GB. When installing NEXTSTEP from the media, you should definitely not make a partition bigger than 2GB.
2. I advise you to rip ISOs of your install media and floppy images of your NEXTSTEP install disks. If you need floppy install images, I can make them available to you. I don't think I can feasibly (or legally) provide ISOs of the install CD, though.
Installing from ISOs and disk images is probably faster than letting Virtual PC use your hardware. I found that booting from the floppy image (which I made using the 'dd' command on Linux) was infinitely faster than using the actual floppy drive. Good thing, because I went through the boot install cycle about 40 times during the trial/error process.
3. Find, and use, the beta S3 video driver that comes on the update CD for NEXTSTEP 3.3. Don't use the standard one because the other article indicated that it was crashy.
4. The other set of instructions set that you should use the dual channel EIDE driver on Virtual PC. I could not get this to work. The default Virtual PC configuration will create a machine that looks like it has a disk as the primary on controller 1, and a CD on the primary of controller 2. I unchecked a checkbox (more details later) to make it only use the primary interface, with the CD-ROM as slave. Then I used the standard EIDE driver.
More later, sorry for the incomplete details!
3.
http://users.adelphia.net/~dialtr/next.html
I have not had time to post a detailed HOWTO at this point, but I will get to it soon. I want to wait until I understand how to get the networking stuff up. I understand it is possible.
I did manage to get 1028x768 true color video, sound blaster sound, etc,.
Some caveats that I'll mention for now:
1. You must create a fixed-size empty disk image for NEXTSTEP, and you should probably make it around 2 GB. When installing NEXTSTEP from the media, you should definitely not make a partition bigger than 2GB.
2. I advise you to rip ISOs of your install media and floppy images of your NEXTSTEP install disks. If you need floppy install images, I can make them available to you. I don't think I can feasibly (or legally) provide ISOs of the install CD, though.
Installing from ISOs and disk images is probably faster than letting Virtual PC use your hardware. I found that booting from the floppy image (which I made using the 'dd' command on Linux) was infinitely faster than using the actual floppy drive. Good thing, because I went through the boot install cycle about 40 times during the trial/error process.
3. Find, and use, the beta S3 video driver that comes on the update CD for NEXTSTEP 3.3. Don't use the standard one because the other article indicated that it was crashy.
4. The other set of instructions set that you should use the dual channel EIDE driver on Virtual PC. I could not get this to work. The default Virtual PC configuration will create a machine that looks like it has a disk as the primary on controller 1, and a CD on the primary of controller 2. I unchecked a checkbox (more details later) to make it only use the primary interface, with the CD-ROM as slave. Then I used the standard EIDE driver.
More later, sorry for the incomplete details!
3.
Title: Re: NEXTSTEP Virtual PC Installation
Post by: stephane on February 05, 2006, 11:28:36 AM
Post by: stephane on February 05, 2006, 11:28:36 AM
Quote from: "dialt"I saw a link someone posted for installing NEXTSTEP 3.3 on Virtual PC, and I am currently attempting this on version 5.3 of Microsoft Virtual PC. I ran into some snags (different from the stated installation instructions) so if anyone's interested, I will be more than willing to share my experiences in a HOWTO (although I won't bother if people AREN'T, so if you ARE you can respond personally or on this board.)
Hopefully it will work-- it's a good compromise if, like me, you have to get rid of actual hardware to save space but still want to use NEXTSTEP.
Thanks.
Tom
Hi Tom,
I am very interested by your Work. I try to install NeXTSTEP 3.3 or OpenStep 4.2 on Virtual PC 2004 v5.3 or VMWare V5.0 since 3 days and it doesn't work.
The best install bugs in the final boot (OpenStep 4.2 with VMWare). The install is OK but when Openstep loads, i have this message
I take the method here
http://www.moldus.org/~laurent/GNUstep/OS42_Install.html
and the installation works until the end of part 2.
So if you have time to explain the way to install this OS, i am interested.
Bye
Stephane.
(Please, excuse my English, i'm french)
Title: OpenStep
Post by: dialt on February 08, 2006, 07:31:40 PM
Post by: dialt on February 08, 2006, 07:31:40 PM
Stephane,
I don't know much about VMWare, but with Virtual PC, it is important that the hard disk be of "Fixed Size" and not too large.
When I say "Fixed Size" I mean that you should create a virtual disk that is not "dynamically expanding." I'm not sure if this has any meaning on VMWare, but it definitely causes trouble on Virtual PC.
Second, you should make sure that the disk isn't too big. I think that for OpenStep, you should be safe with 2GB for the size of your virtual disk. NEXTSTEP is actually limited to 2GB, but I remember someone saying that OpenStep can support larger disks. Either way, this could be a factor.
Lastly, I had to experiment quite a bit with device drivers and the configuration of the virtual IDE interface. The main thing I noticed was this: The default IDE configuration placed the main disk as the master on interface 0 and the CD drive as the master on interface 1.
This is optimal for real-world situations too, since putting two devices on the same IDE channel offers worse performance.
However, the only way I could get my system to work was to only use a single channel on the virtual ide interface.
It sounds like you got OpenStep installed but just can't boot. Is that right? If so, I'd check the dynamic disk thing/ disk size first, and then start experimenting with other installs.
I'm not sure if this helps, but I don't have OpenStep so I don't know many details about that. I mostly got NEXTSTEP installed through "brute force"
and trial and error.
I don't know much about VMWare, but with Virtual PC, it is important that the hard disk be of "Fixed Size" and not too large.
When I say "Fixed Size" I mean that you should create a virtual disk that is not "dynamically expanding." I'm not sure if this has any meaning on VMWare, but it definitely causes trouble on Virtual PC.
Second, you should make sure that the disk isn't too big. I think that for OpenStep, you should be safe with 2GB for the size of your virtual disk. NEXTSTEP is actually limited to 2GB, but I remember someone saying that OpenStep can support larger disks. Either way, this could be a factor.
Lastly, I had to experiment quite a bit with device drivers and the configuration of the virtual IDE interface. The main thing I noticed was this: The default IDE configuration placed the main disk as the master on interface 0 and the CD drive as the master on interface 1.
This is optimal for real-world situations too, since putting two devices on the same IDE channel offers worse performance.
However, the only way I could get my system to work was to only use a single channel on the virtual ide interface.
It sounds like you got OpenStep installed but just can't boot. Is that right? If so, I'd check the dynamic disk thing/ disk size first, and then start experimenting with other installs.
I'm not sure if this helps, but I don't have OpenStep so I don't know many details about that. I mostly got NEXTSTEP installed through "brute force"
and trial and error.
Title: NEXTSTEP Virtual PC Installation
Post by: Nitro on February 16, 2006, 09:19:31 PM
Post by: Nitro on February 16, 2006, 09:19:31 PM
I ran across this link for installing OPENSTEP 4.2 on Virtual PC 6. Maybe there's some useful information in there:
http://www.simski.org/next/software/openstep/info_os/OS4.2_on_VPC.txt
http://www.simski.org/next/software/openstep/info_os/OS4.2_on_VPC.txt
Title: Re: Update
Post by: fidel on March 18, 2006, 12:39:16 AM
Post by: fidel on March 18, 2006, 12:39:16 AM
Quote from: "dialt"I got NEXTSTEP up and running on my Virtual PC 2004...
http://users.adelphia.net/~dialtr/next.html
Pretty!
Title: Re: Update
Post by: fidel on March 19, 2006, 02:56:16 AM
Post by: fidel on March 19, 2006, 02:56:16 AM
Quote from: "dialt"I got NEXTSTEP up and running on my Virtual PC 2004...
Some caveats that I'll mention for now:
1. You must create a fixed-size empty disk image for NEXTSTEP, and you should probably make it around 2 GB. When installing NEXTSTEP from the media, you should definitely not make a partition bigger than 2GB.
I've tried to compress, for the purposes of testing, a 256M DOS-format drive container created with VPC 2.x on my Mac, and it seems unusually large (~40% of the source file size), given that the source should consist almost entirely of redundancies. Does a tarring and a gzipping appreciably improve the savings? Just curious, in case there's ever a need for a drive container of type 'other', since I can't create one with this version of VPC...
Title: Install
Post by: Bond on March 21, 2006, 11:02:24 PM
Post by: Bond on March 21, 2006, 11:02:24 PM
I did all instructions over the internet, but when I try to install in my Virtual PC7, after load SCSI and dual Atapi drivers..., it starts a "Next Mach Operating System" window..., everythin is going until a WARNING:
Prepoterous time en real time clock - check and reset the date!
Power management is enabled
hc1: interrupt timeout, cmd: 0x28
hc1: FATAL: ATAPI device: 0 command 28 failed
hc1: ATAPI command: error=0x0 secCnt=0x2 secNum=0x1 cyl=0x12 drhd=0xe9 staus=0x58
sd0: REQUEST SENSE ERRO; FATAL
Load of /etc/match_init, errno 5, trying /etc/init
Load of /etc/init failed, errno5
What i'm doing wrong?
thanks
Prepoterous time en real time clock - check and reset the date!
Power management is enabled
hc1: interrupt timeout, cmd: 0x28
hc1: FATAL: ATAPI device: 0 command 28 failed
hc1: ATAPI command: error=0x0 secCnt=0x2 secNum=0x1 cyl=0x12 drhd=0xe9 staus=0x58
sd0: REQUEST SENSE ERRO; FATAL
Load of /etc/match_init, errno 5, trying /etc/init
Load of /etc/init failed, errno5
What i'm doing wrong?
thanks
Title: Virtual PC vs Virtual Server...
Post by: neozeed on April 15, 2006, 07:57:43 PM
Post by: neozeed on April 15, 2006, 07:57:43 PM
Just more of an FYI, but the updated emulation engine will not run Nextstep nor openstep...
Anyways to install nextstep on virtualpc 2004, I used the 'beta' disk, and on the 'scsi' selection its busted... so I select #2 (some adaptec thing) then go on the the 3rd screen and select the "primary/secondary(dual) EIDIE and ATAPI Device Controller"
Also definatly go with the iso images of the nextstep disc's. It'll take FOREVER with real media.
The final thing I would say is although the high vide & networking dont work, try qemu, its FAST. Running a fsck on virutal pc can take 20-30 min, where qemu can do it in under a minute.
Anyways to install nextstep on virtualpc 2004, I used the 'beta' disk, and on the 'scsi' selection its busted... so I select #2 (some adaptec thing) then go on the the 3rd screen and select the "primary/secondary(dual) EIDIE and ATAPI Device Controller"
Also definatly go with the iso images of the nextstep disc's. It'll take FOREVER with real media.
The final thing I would say is although the high vide & networking dont work, try qemu, its FAST. Running a fsck on virutal pc can take 20-30 min, where qemu can do it in under a minute.
Title: NEXTSTEP Virtual PC Installation
Post by: spetznatz on May 22, 2006, 08:03:35 AM
Post by: spetznatz on May 22, 2006, 08:03:35 AM
Tom --
You said on your website:
"Thanks to Apple for honoring the Y2K upgrade-- they sent NEXTSTEP 3.3 on CD, which was the first time I got access to NEXTSTEP/Intel."
Could you expand on this? I've searched Apple.com to no avail. I've got a turbo slab that's never been Y2K'd -- would I be eligible? Seems like a neat way to get hold of NS i386...I'd like to try installing it via Parallels Desktop when I get a new intel Mac...
Cheers,
Tim
You said on your website:
"Thanks to Apple for honoring the Y2K upgrade-- they sent NEXTSTEP 3.3 on CD, which was the first time I got access to NEXTSTEP/Intel."
Could you expand on this? I've searched Apple.com to no avail. I've got a turbo slab that's never been Y2K'd -- would I be eligible? Seems like a neat way to get hold of NS i386...I'd like to try installing it via Parallels Desktop when I get a new intel Mac...
Cheers,
Tim
Title: NEXTSTEP Virtual PC Installation
Post by: kody on May 25, 2006, 06:16:29 AM
Post by: kody on May 25, 2006, 06:16:29 AM
is there any way to use NeXT on a mac, there are programs to load windows on a mac virtualy. there should be some way after all mac os x is pretty much a NeXT with better graphics.
Title: NEXTSTEP Virtual PC Installation
Post by: neozeed on May 25, 2006, 07:26:47 AM
Post by: neozeed on May 25, 2006, 07:26:47 AM
Quote from: "kody"is there any way to use NeXT on a mac, there are programs to load windows on a mac virtualy. there should be some way after all mac os x is pretty much a NeXT with better graphics.
Im liking the new 0.8.1 qemu. Although you will have to patch the source code.. I guess I could provide binaries for 10.4.6 ppc. Virtual PC for the mac is kind of glitchy as the newer emulation cores do not like nextstep/openstep. There is another emulation program but I forget its name off the top of my head. The cool thing about the qemu program is that its available on all kinds of platforms so you can stick nextstep on a usb drive, and run it on windows/linux/solaris & osx.... :)
Title: NEXTSTEP Virtual PC Installation
Post by: RacerX on May 25, 2006, 07:59:06 AM
Post by: RacerX on May 25, 2006, 07:59:06 AM
Quote from: "spetznatz"Could you expand on this? I've searched Apple.com to no avail. I've got a turbo slab that's never been Y2K'd -- would I be eligible? Seems like a neat way to get hold of NS i386...I'd like to try installing it via Parallels Desktop when I get a new intel Mac...Apple has dropped support for NeXT equipment, which means that they have stopped providing a free copy of the NEXTSTEP media to owners of black hardware (both NeXT and Intel platforms are on the same installation CD for 3.3).
Apple does still have the patches available for download to bring older installations of NEXTSTEP 3.3 and OPENSTEP 4.2 up to date (including fixing Y2K issues). You can find the patches here:
OPENSTEP 4.2 Patch 4 for User (http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/MultiCountry/Enterprise/openstep/patches/OS42MachUserPatch4.tar) & Developer (http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/MultiCountry/Enterprise/openstep/patches/OS42MachDevPatch4.tar) (Release Notes (http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/MultiCountry/Enterprise/openstep/patches/OS42Patch4ReleaseNotes.pdf))[/list]These patches are self contained and do not require any of the previous patches to have been installed first.
Quote from: "kody"is there any way to use NeXT on a mac, there are programs to load windows on a mac virtualy. there should be some way after all mac os x is pretty much a NeXT with better graphics.In Mac OS X people have been able to get it up and running using things like VirtualPC (I still run NEXTSTEP 3.3 in VPC 5, and though I only run OPENSTEP 4.2 on real hardware now it also worked for me in VPC 5).
In Rhapsody you can run NEXTSTEP and OPENSTEP applications via a host system... but that is because Rhapsody still used Display Postscript (which was replaced with Display PDF in Mac OS X). Markus has some screen shots of this in action in the screen shots thread and Andrew Stone has a How To article on getting it set up here (http://www.stone.com/Run_NeXTSTEP_Now/index.html).
There are other threads with more info on VPC and other such apps here in the forum. Those threads would be a better place to start seeing as my info on the subject is about as out of date as my copy of VPC.
Title: Color Screen
Post by: Boroda on January 14, 2007, 06:18:34 PM
Post by: Boroda on January 14, 2007, 06:18:34 PM
Thank you for tips and options, which finally allows me to install Nextstep on Virtual PC 2004.
But I still can not turn on the color on the screen. I've installed S3 dirvers from here http://www.nleymann.de/Nextstep/VirtualPC.htm
But I'm unable to switch video mode. It could be changed threough configuration, but has no effect.
But I still can not turn on the color on the screen. I've installed S3 dirvers from here http://www.nleymann.de/Nextstep/VirtualPC.htm
But I'm unable to switch video mode. It could be changed threough configuration, but has no effect.
Title: NEXTSTEP Virtual PC Installation
Post by: Boroda on January 15, 2007, 02:32:30 PM
Post by: Boroda on January 15, 2007, 02:32:30 PM
Finally I've achieved the color depth desired :)
The mistake was, that you first should login as root, install driver, and only then select configuration and chose something with 32 bit color.
The S3 Virge driver from NextStep beta drivers
http://apple.doit.wisc.edu/mirrors/Apple_Software_Updates/MultiCountry/Enterprise/nextstep/drivers/beta/S3ViRGEDisplay.pkg.compressed
is even better (higher refresh rate)
One more note: you shold not install laptop hotfix on your virtual pc, because in that case NS is very unstable and hangs often.
The mistake was, that you first should login as root, install driver, and only then select configuration and chose something with 32 bit color.
The S3 Virge driver from NextStep beta drivers
http://apple.doit.wisc.edu/mirrors/Apple_Software_Updates/MultiCountry/Enterprise/nextstep/drivers/beta/S3ViRGEDisplay.pkg.compressed
is even better (higher refresh rate)
One more note: you shold not install laptop hotfix on your virtual pc, because in that case NS is very unstable and hangs often.