OpenStep on Abit IP35 Pro

Hi,

I am currently trying to set up a multi-OS system.  I had a problem with my IDE card seeing cd-drives, so I sourced a new one. (I guess I had a different raid BIOS)  It's a Promise Ultra tx2.  Will I be able to make use of this with OpenStep?

What's the best way for me to set this up.  I did read another thread about using a cd, but would it make more sense for me to install to an ide drive from a virtual machine?  I've had an OpenStep virtual machine for a while.  Sorry if I am asking redundant questions.

 Any special considerations for my computer?  I don't think I can really change the graphics card, and would rather be able to keep all 4gb of memory installed, even if I can't use it.

Abit IP35 Pro motherboard. (P35 Chipset)
Promise Ultra 100 Tx2 ide pci card
Radeon x300se (or I also have an x700)
512-4GB memory
IDE to CF card. (I would like to have the OS on here.)
A SATA ssd for other OS.
IDE cd drive.

I currently have a Core i7-2600 running Openstep 4.2. I did that by installing onto a scsi drive on an older machine (A Pentium III). Then I installed the same scsi card in my Core i7 and moved my drive over to it. I checked that legacy option roms were enabled and legacy boot was enabled. I get best speeds with a Adaptec 2940UW or 2940UW PRO.

AIMB-701G2
Nvidia GTX1050TI
Adapted 2940UW Pro
3x Atlas 36G 15k Scsi Drives
Smc 9332 Pci Ethernet
Creative SB 16 Pci

I use a kernel flag of maxmem=917504 it gets me 896M of ram. any more crashes on me with the vesa driver.


REPORT.txt LOGS.RTF
 

Quote from: AP on September 22, 2023, 12:39:47 AMHi,

I am currently trying to set up a multi-OS system.  I had a problem with my IDE card seeing cd-drives, so I sourced a new one. (I guess I had a different raid BIOS)  It's a Promise Ultra tx2.  Will I be able to make use of this with OpenStep?

What's the best way for me to set this up.  I did read another thread about using a cd, but would it make more sense for me to install to an ide drive from a virtual machine?  I've had an OpenStep virtual machine for a while.  Sorry if I am asking redundant questions.

 Any special considerations for my computer?  I don't think I can really change the graphics card, and would rather be able to keep all 4gb of memory installed, even if I can't use it.

Abit IP35 Pro motherboard. (P35 Chipset)
Promise Ultra 100 Tx2 ide pci card
Radeon x300se (or I also have an x700)
512-4GB memory
IDE to CF card. (I would like to have the OS on here.)
A SATA ssd for other OS.
IDE cd drive.

I think that the Promise Ultra IDE PCI card should work, but you'll just have to try it to be sure. I have a few of the IDE > CF cards and they work fine, but they're not very fast.

You can leave all of the memory installed and change the amount of memory used by OPENSTEP after installation.

Either one of those video cards should work with the VESA driver, but you'll need to test them to verify. You can do the installation with the VGA driver and then switch to the VESA driver after installing the patch 4 update.

I don't have any experience with installing or running OPENSTEP in a VM, so I won't be much help there. If you try any settings that prevent OPENSTEP from booting then you can enter the following at the boot prompt to boot into the default configuration (case sensitive):

config=Default

This thread may be helpful to get you up and running:

https://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/index.php?topic=2801

Let us know if you run into any problems.

Thanks.  How do I limit the RAM?  How do I set kernel flags?

Quote from: AP on September 27, 2023, 03:53:19 PMThanks.  How do I limit the RAM?  How do I set kernel flags?

You can define the max memory setting by opening the /NextAdmin/Configure.app. Choose the document icon on the top left and select the expert button at the bottom right. Double click the "Kernel Flags" line until the cursor shows and then tab to the "Value" field. Enter a value similar to:

maxmem=900000

Next select another field so that the new value remains in the field, then select OK and then Save. You'll have to experiment to find the maximum value for your individual computer and setup. If you choose a value that's too high then it won't boot and you'll have to enter config=Default at the boot prompt to get back in to change the value. Hopefully that gets things working for you.

If you want to test a kernel flag you can enter it at the boot: prompt. Just don't forget to add it permanently as Nitro explained.

That flag worked.  I used VirtualBox.  Had a pain in the neck time installing to a cf card on Mac OSX, with mapping it.  I ended up installing to a VDI file and then converting that to an IMG, then using dd to image that to the cf card.

Took me a while to get this far, so I'll stop now.  This is as far as I got.

1

---

That last timeout happened about 5 times before continuing.

---

No help from monitor here...  Any tips?

---

ID=0x2363197b at Dev=0 Func=0 Bus=3 (https://bsd-hardware.info/?view=search&vendorid=197b&deviceid=2363#list)

Photo 03 is telling me that OpenStep hasn't loaded a driver to properly read/write to a OpenStep 4.2 partition and then mount it.

When OpenStep boots it uses slow BIOS calls to read the drivers and mach_kernal of the partition and run them.

My IDE hard drive on my Dell Inspiron 5150 also can not boot in IDE compatibility mode (I don't know why) :'(

But it's a good sign that you can get that far. What storage controller are you using on your virtual machine? What program is it?

Photo 02, tells me that you still have the floppy driver enabled in /private/Drivers/i386/System.config/Instance0.table and that your physical hardware does not have a floppy drive which is why it is displaying the error:
Registering: fc0
Floppy Controller Reset: Command Timeout

Photo 01, tells me that no IDE hardware is replying to the systems probe at port 0x1f0 (IRQ 14, 15) which is how computer hardware boots up in compatibility mode
hc0: no devices detected at port 0x1f0
Instance 0 of Dual EIDE failed the probe.
On my system it prints the IDE HD device info in Cylinders/Heads/Sectors.

I used oracle VirtualBox on a Mac.  I used the virtual IDE controller: PIIX4.

Then I took the CF card, and put it in a CF-IDE adapter.  That is attached to a Promise Ultra 100 TX2 ide card.

Now one thing I didn't test yet is trying to disable the on-board ide controller.

can you on your virtualbox image display the results of

# cat /private/Drivers/i386/System.config/Instance0.table
This will tell us what drivers are loaded at boot time.

# cat /private/Drivers/i386/EIDE.config/Default.table
This will tell us what your IDE driver is at boot time.

if the command doesn't work that is because I got the uppercase mixed up on the directory and file name, just manually cd in to the directory and cat the file.

I'll do that when I get a chance.  I also pulled a floppy drive and some floppies, and may try to install directly.  We will see when I get back to it.  Thank you, by the way.

By the way, I used this driver.

EIDE and ATAPI Device Controller (v4.03)

From the driver floppy image.

Quote from: AP on October 23, 2023, 03:14:21 PMBy the way, I used this driver.

EIDE and ATAPI Device Controller (v4.03)

From the driver floppy image.

Have you had any luck using the other EIDE driver?
Primary/Secondary(Dual) EIDE/ATAPI Device Controller (v4.03)
I don't know what driver is the best to use so I can't help you but a lot of tutorials seem to recommend the Primary/Secondary(Dual) EIDE/ATAPI Device Controller (v4.03) as this is the driver which has a dual devices on either the Primary/Secondary controller.

I read that you can not select both drivers (i.e you can not select both Primary/Secondary(Dual) EIDE/ATAPI Device Controller (v4.03) and EIDE and ATAPI Device Controller (v4.03) at the same time as they cause conflicts.

These drivers also get the Hard Drive size directly of the IDE Hard Drive and not from the BIOS.

Other users will give their recommendations.

In your BIOS is your SATA HDD set to IDE compatibility mode?

In my BIOS the on board use was actually set to disabled.  Same with the SATA.

Actually I used that one, the primary/secondary.

Hi.  I haven't got to this in a bit.  I was having graphics difficulty unrelated to NeXT.  Would this IDE card not be functional for NeXT?  It seems like most of you use the adaptec SCSI card.  I do not have SCSI devices to use, and my other OS(s) are already set up on IDE cards.  I guess I will try to do another floppy and go from there.  I had something else to say that I thought was worth it to try and ask again, but I forget already.

IDE device under next only can address 8gb and that only supports up to PIO4 speeds. I get up to 36mb/s (40 is the max theoretical I can get)

With Ide I see at most 7.8mb/s (This is not using a PIIX ide controller, no DMA)
With a PIIX DMA Ide controller I have see about 20mb/s...

Scsi is just faster due to drivers...

Quote from: AP on October 22, 2023, 07:12:29 PMI used oracle VirtualBox on a Mac.  I used the virtual IDE controller: PIIX4.

When using EIDE driver (4.03) on VirtualBox select PIIX3 as that is what the official update driver supports. It does not have "Auto Detect IDs" for the PIIX3PIIX4.

you can find the "Auto Detect IDS" by:
cd /usr/Devices/EIDE.config
more EIDE_PIIX.table

then compare the Device IDs on Device Id of 0x70108086 from file (https://bsd-hardware.info/?view=search&vendorid=8086&deviceid=7010#list)

EDIT: Had to update above to say that EIDE driver (4.03) does not support PIIX4 only supports PIIX3

So I would be able to add the device ID for the Promise TX2 to the EIDE Driver?

With a CF card, it will probably be quite fast for the OS, even with the limited bandwidth?  Or am I wrong...

Quote from: AP on December 19, 2023, 12:42:31 AMSo I would be able to add the device ID for the Promise TX2 to the EIDE Driver?

With a CF card, it will probably be quite fast for the OS, even with the limited bandwidth?  Or am I wrong...

No it does not work like this sadly. The source code for EIDE driver on user @evolver56k has the PIIX3 code, and inside the driver code after detecting certain IDs it then enables and sets certain flags. ICHX IDE driver is backwards compatible with the PIIX driver code but your Promise TX2 hardware will need a custom driver unless it can fall back on the IRQ 14,15 which is slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww but at least you can get it working.

Hmm, this is no good.  I don't have much in the way of SCSI.  I don't necessarily mind an HDD, but prefer not to.  And I don't have one anyway.

This IRQ resource thing, is this something I'd have to set up in BIOS, or is it automatic?

Well I might just try to squeeze a 2940UW in there.  I have a Adaptec 29160?  Would that work?

SCSI cards are cheap, but I really don't want to use a mechanical HDD, and adapters for SCSI to any other protocol are expensive, and egregiously so.

EDIT:

I wasn't kidding.  Doing some research.  I can get a SCSI card for like 20 bucks.  Hard to find even a cheap mechanical drive (I'm sure I could find one locally), but I don't want to deal with possibly failing or noisy drives.  I'd splurge on a SCSI SD solution, but they seem rather slow.  Is 8-10 MB/s read/write fast for OpenStep?  If that is a good speed, should I go with ZuluSCSI or BlueSCSI, or try to find a SCSI2SD?

My board IDE is provided by a JMicron controller.  If my Promise card can fall back on those IRQs, how slow would it be?

What drivers are out there for IDE cards/controllers?  I went with the Promise card because I was setting up BeOS and they have a driver for it.  They also have a generic replacement driver.  The 2940UW is also supported by BeOS.

I apologize if that is an obnoxious amount of questions.

EDIT 2:

I really think I prefer to use the Promise card, if I can make the attempt.  How would I go about doing that?  I think I am OK with slower speeds.  I only have 3 pci slots to work with, 1 with IDE card, 1 with sound card, and 1 with Ethernet card. (Unless there is a pci-e x4 or x1 ethernet card I can use).

Any chance of me using developers' tools on a VM or some other method to write a driver for the promise card?  Any possibility to port a driver?

Quote from: AP on December 20, 2023, 10:46:42 PMHmm, this is no good.  I don't have much in the way of SCSI.  I don't necessarily mind an HDD, but prefer not to.  And I don't have one anyway.

This IRQ resource thing, is this something I'd have to set up in BIOS, or is it automatic?

The IRQ is part of the ATA standard as it allows coding drivers and supporting hardware a lot easier here is a page on OSDev (https://wiki.osdev.org/ATA_PIO_Mode) which gives more details.

Quote from: AP on December 21, 2023, 01:04:30 PMWell I might just try to squeeze a 2940UW in there.  I have a Adaptec 29160?  Would that work?

SCSI cards are cheap, but I really don't want to use a mechanical HDD, and adapters for SCSI to any other protocol are expensive, and egregiously so.

EDIT:

I wasn't kidding.  Doing some research.  I can get a SCSI card for like 20 bucks.  Hard to find even a cheap mechanical drive (I'm sure I could find one locally), but I don't want to deal with possibly failing or noisy drives.  I'd splurge on a SCSI SD solution, but they seem rather slow.  Is 8-10 MB/s read/write fast for OpenStep?  If that is a good speed, should I go with ZuluSCSI or BlueSCSI, or try to find a SCSI2SD?

My board IDE is provided by a JMicron controller.  If my Promise card can fall back on those IRQs, how slow would it be?

What drivers are out there for IDE cards/controllers?  I went with the Promise card because I was setting up BeOS and they have a driver for it.  They also have a generic replacement driver.  The 2940UW is also supported by BeOS.

I apologize if that is an obnoxious amount of questions.

EDIT 2:

I really think I prefer to use the Promise card, if I can make the attempt.  How would I go about doing that?  I think I am OK with slower speeds.  I only have 3 pci slots to work with, 1 with IDE card, 1 with sound card, and 1 with Ethernet card. (Unless there is a pci-e x4 or x1 ethernet card I can use).

Any chance of me using developers' tools on a VM or some other method to write a driver for the promise card?  Any possibility to port a driver?

All the users on here who have OpenStep working buy the proper hardware that has working drivers. My hardware sadly isn't working and supported so I have to try a lot harder, i.e using a Grub2 bootloader on a USB stick and modifying the 2.44MB disk driver with working drivers, I use Grub2 with memdisk/syslinux.

 I'm using the developer's tools on VirtualBox to try to create a driver, I was happy that I managed to make a config/bundle which recognized my PCI "AutoDetect" ID's. (In otherwords, a PCI Hello World driver) I've been meaning to type up the basic HTML of my notes for a tutorial so that other developers can hit the ground running. The problem with my PCIHelloWorldDriver was that it was still not detecting my hardware at install time when the install program loads my basic driver  :'(

EDIT 23:DEC:2023 0759: There is source code in OpenStep for a Adaptec 1542B in Driverkit for OS42. If you download the datasheet pdfs for this hardware and your Adaptec 29160 and see how much of a overlap there is.

The source code for EIDE driver provided for Apple requires you to also download the packages for driverkit and kernal to get it to compile but the only IDE hardware they support is Intel PIIX3,PIIX2 and the generic IDE compatibility which is through IRQs 14 and 15.

Adaptec 29160, 2940U2W, 131U2 will not work with Openstep/Nextstep
What does work for pci Adaptec cards is the 2940, 2940UW, 2940UW pro.
These are the cards I have tested.

The Adaptec AHA-2930C also works with the 2940 driver; however the AHA-2930CU does not.

OK.  I'll go for generic IDE with IRQ 14/15.  If it doesn't work out, then I'll hold off until I can incorporate SCSI into my setup.

I'll let you all know if it works out with the IDE, but if not there will be quite a delay in the project.  In the meantime, thank you all for your answers.  :)